Comments on: Tories will bring back foxhunting by the back door http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/08/24/tories-will-bring-back-foxhunting-by-the-back-door/ Daily views on British politics and the Conservative Party from a centre-right thinker who writes letters on his blog to politicians, journalists and many others. Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:10:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Stuart http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/08/24/tories-will-bring-back-foxhunting-by-the-back-door/#comment-12500 Stuart Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:45:19 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=4121#comment-12500 There are better ways of ridding the ground of foxes. Shooting is one way,, or rather it was, after the murders at Hungerford, the then Conservative government banned the use of semi-automatic rifles in fulbore, this was the most effective way, hunting with dogs does work, but it seems the regalia that goes with hunting is the problem, the red jackets, all thought of as toffs, etc, well yes, but we also make a party out of a funeral, we dress up, go have eats and drinks, we laugh, (happy times remembering the past one) is there any difference? dressing up over hunting a fox or dressing up over the death of a fellow being? Also as a farmer quite often while on a tractor one comes across a fox, what better way than dispatch with a pistol. Only the last Conservative government banned them, along with the 1997 labour government.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('12500','Stuart'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('12500','Stuart','There are better ways of ridding the ground of foxes.\r\nShooting is one way,, or rather it was, after the murders at Hungerford, the then Conservative government banned the use of semi-automatic rifles in fulbore, this was the most effective way, hunting with dogs does work, but it seems the regalia that goes with hunting is the problem, the red jackets, all thought of as toffs, etc, well yes, but we also make a party out of a funeral, we dress up, go have eats and drinks, we laugh, (happy times remembering the past one) is there any difference? dressing up over hunting a fox or dressing up over the death of a fellow being?\r\nAlso as a farmer quite often while on a tractor one comes across a fox, what better way than dispatch with a pistol.\r\nOnly the last Conservative government banned them, along with the 1997 labour government.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> There are better ways of ridding the ground of foxes.
Shooting is one way,, or rather it was, after the murders at Hungerford, the then Conservative government banned the use of semi-automatic rifles in fulbore, this was the most effective way, hunting with dogs does work, but it seems the regalia that goes with hunting is the problem, the red jackets, all thought of as toffs, etc, well yes, but we also make a party out of a funeral, we dress up, go have eats and drinks, we laugh, (happy times remembering the past one) is there any difference? dressing up over hunting a fox or dressing up over the death of a fellow being?
Also as a farmer quite often while on a tractor one comes across a fox, what better way than dispatch with a pistol.
Only the last Conservative government banned them, along with the 1997 labour government.
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]]> By: Chris http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/08/24/tories-will-bring-back-foxhunting-by-the-back-door/#comment-12498 Chris Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:17:20 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=4121#comment-12498 i see the point that foxes can cause a problem but surely there are better, cheaper, more effective, less glamorised, less barbaric and less torturous ways of controlling the numbers of foxes causing a problem in britain's countryside than dressing up, chasing them - which any honest hunter will not deny is thrilling and pleasurable - and them mauling them with dogs, in the hope of killing them? dishonest politicians are, surely, more of a threat to the country than the fox and i don't see anyone supporting a campaign to hunt them down and maul them death... do i?<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('12498','Chris'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('12498','Chris','i see the point that foxes can cause a problem but surely there are better, cheaper, more effective, less glamorised, less barbaric and less torturous ways of controlling the numbers of foxes causing a problem in britain\'s countryside than dressing up, chasing them - which any honest hunter will not deny is thrilling and pleasurable - and them mauling them with dogs, in the hope of killing them?\r\n\r\ndishonest politicians are, surely, more of a threat to the country than the fox and i don\'t see anyone supporting a campaign to hunt them down and maul them death... do i?'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> i see the point that foxes can cause a problem but surely there are better, cheaper, more effective, less glamorised, less barbaric and less torturous ways of controlling the numbers of foxes causing a problem in britain’s countryside than dressing up, chasing them – which any honest hunter will not deny is thrilling and pleasurable – and them mauling them with dogs, in the hope of killing them?

dishonest politicians are, surely, more of a threat to the country than the fox and i don’t see anyone supporting a campaign to hunt them down and maul them death… do i?

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]]> By: Richard http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/08/24/tories-will-bring-back-foxhunting-by-the-back-door/#comment-12478 Richard Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:57:04 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=4121#comment-12478 <a href='#comment-12457' rel="nofollow">@Anon</a> - You are an idiot. This is nothing to do with "toffs". I'd like you to tell the owner of my local pub that he is a toff without having the whole bar laugh at you. You can stand in front of the photo of him in his red coat if you think it would help, but since half the people there have known him all his life it won't.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('12478','Richard'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('12478','Richard','<a href=\'#comment-12457\' rel=\"nofollow\">@Anon<\/a> - You are an idiot. This is nothing to do with \"toffs\". I\'d like you to tell the owner of my local pub that he is a toff without having the whole bar laugh at you. You can stand in front of the photo of him in his red coat if you think it would help, but since half the people there have known him all his life it won\'t.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> @Anon – You are an idiot. This is nothing to do with “toffs”. I’d like you to tell the owner of my local pub that he is a toff without having the whole bar laugh at you. You can stand in front of the photo of him in his red coat if you think it would help, but since half the people there have known him all his life it won’t.
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]]> By: Stuart http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/08/24/tories-will-bring-back-foxhunting-by-the-back-door/#comment-12461 Stuart Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:40:20 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=4121#comment-12461 There we go a socialist saying we are in a a time of economic depression, yes it will end when the government changes, but who caused it? broon the loon. Yes socialism the politics of envy, and wants everyone the same. Nothing wrong with that but excuse me for not wanting to get down to your level in the gutter, I need to go one way and that is up, sadly that means leaving the socialists behind. <a href='#comment-12457' rel="nofollow">@Anon</a> -<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('12461','Stuart'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('12461','Stuart','There we go a socialist saying we are in a a time of economic depression, yes it will end when the government changes, but who caused it? broon the loon.\r\nYes socialism the politics of envy, and wants everyone the same. Nothing wrong with that but excuse me for not wanting to get down to your level in the gutter, I need to go one way and that is up, sadly that means leaving the socialists behind.\r\n<a href=\'#comment-12457\' rel=\"nofollow\">@Anon<\/a> -'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> There we go a socialist saying we are in a a time of economic depression, yes it will end when the government changes, but who caused it? broon the loon.
Yes socialism the politics of envy, and wants everyone the same. Nothing wrong with that but excuse me for not wanting to get down to your level in the gutter, I need to go one way and that is up, sadly that means leaving the socialists behind.
@Anon -
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]]> By: Anon http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/08/24/tories-will-bring-back-foxhunting-by-the-back-door/#comment-12457 Anon Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:52:38 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=4121#comment-12457 This is just what the nation needs, at a time of trying economic depression, the wonderful site of spoilt toffs, explicitly enjoying their wickedest whims, anywhere and everywhere across the country. Well, I want my share of the fun! *Vomits Blood*<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('12457','Anon'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('12457','Anon','This is just what the nation needs, at a time of trying economic depression, the wonderful site of spoilt toffs, explicitly enjoying their wickedest whims, anywhere and everywhere across the country. \r\n\r\nWell, I want my share of the fun! *Vomits Blood*'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> This is just what the nation needs, at a time of trying economic depression, the wonderful site of spoilt toffs, explicitly enjoying their wickedest whims, anywhere and everywhere across the country.

Well, I want my share of the fun! *Vomits Blood*

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]]> By: Richard http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/08/24/tories-will-bring-back-foxhunting-by-the-back-door/#comment-12446 Richard Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:34:43 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=4121#comment-12446 @Candid – “Even our cleverer cousins the ‘Neanderthals’ died out becuase we bred faster”

Sorry, but that shows no application of biology at all. First off there is no evidence that we bred faster. More importantly if we did breed faster, then why did we and how did we sustain that extra population?

Breeding faster is irrelevant if a species cannot find the food to sustain the population. Many creatures breed tens of thousands of offspring, but more than 90% die before sexual maturity.

In fact you highlight another line between animals and humans. There is no evidence for specialisation in Neanderthals, but there is for contemporary humans. Since the entire history of human development, in science, technology and economics relies on specialisation and no other species seems to show it so strongly, I think that is important.

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]]> By: JuliaM http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/08/24/tories-will-bring-back-foxhunting-by-the-back-door/#comment-12439 JuliaM Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:31:39 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=4121#comment-12439 “We may be the most intelligent of species but that does not give us power over other things. “

In the absense of another tool-using primate coming to the fore (and I think you’d have to agree that that is unlikely now) we have power. We’ve created power. We aren’t giving it up, short of nuclear war. In which case, I wish the cockroaches well in their new kingdom…

“So if a puma would judge the rest of the animal kingdom…”

Outside of ‘Narnia’ books, the only judging a puma is ever likely to do is ‘is that edible?’ and ‘can I reach it from here?’.

It’s an animal, not a little person in a fur coat.

“Even our cleverer cousins the ‘Neanderthals’ died out becuase we bred faster. “

Or because we killed them.

“…dinosaurs once dominated the land, now it is our turn but probably for not much longer if we keep trying to pretend we have infinite resources. “

I’m not aware that anyone was pretending. I’m also confident we can resolve that problem. I don’t think you’ll like the answers, though.

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]]> By: Candid http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/08/24/tories-will-bring-back-foxhunting-by-the-back-door/#comment-12427 Candid Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:55:34 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=4121#comment-12427 Having studied biology, genetics and evolution for 4 years you realise that things are not so clear cut as we as humans so arrogantly believe. We may be the most intelligent of species but that does not give us power over other things. Other animals have sufficient intelligencce to fit in their individual niches. Monkeys outwit pumas for example but pumas don't need to be intelligent they need to have amazing senses, speed and agility. So if a puma would judge the rest of the animal kingdom it would consider the senses to be most important and we would be way down on it's list of good animals. Ever thought why no other animal in 3.8 billion years of evolution has stayed being intelligent? Even our cleverer cousins the 'Neanderthals' died out becuase we bred faster. So there is a limit to the importance and function of intelligence. We have a large amount of intelligence because it put us in a distinct niche. Intelligence is not therefore beneficial to all animals otherwise we would have greater competition in the big brain department - and we don't. In the long term just remember that dinosaurs once dominated the land, now it is our turn but probably for not much longer if we keep trying to pretend we have infinite resources.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('12427','Candid'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('12427','Candid','Having studied biology, genetics and evolution for 4 years you realise that things are not so clear cut as we as humans so arrogantly believe. We may be the most intelligent of species but that does not give us power over other things. Other animals have sufficient intelligencce to fit in their individual niches. Monkeys outwit pumas for example but pumas don\'t need to be intelligent they need to have amazing senses, speed and agility. So if a puma would judge the rest of the animal kingdom it would consider the senses to be most important and we would be way down on it\'s list of good animals. \r\n\r\nEver thought why no other animal in 3.8 billion years of evolution has stayed being intelligent? Even our cleverer cousins the \'Neanderthals\' died out becuase we bred faster. So there is a limit to the importance and function of intelligence. We have a large amount of intelligence because it put us in a distinct niche. Intelligence is not therefore beneficial to all animals otherwise we would have greater competition in the big brain department - and we don\'t.\r\n\r\nIn the long term just remember that dinosaurs once dominated the land, now it is our turn but probably for not much longer if we keep trying to pretend we have infinite resources.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> Having studied biology, genetics and evolution for 4 years you realise that things are not so clear cut as we as humans so arrogantly believe. We may be the most intelligent of species but that does not give us power over other things. Other animals have sufficient intelligencce to fit in their individual niches. Monkeys outwit pumas for example but pumas don’t need to be intelligent they need to have amazing senses, speed and agility. So if a puma would judge the rest of the animal kingdom it would consider the senses to be most important and we would be way down on it’s list of good animals.

Ever thought why no other animal in 3.8 billion years of evolution has stayed being intelligent? Even our cleverer cousins the ‘Neanderthals’ died out becuase we bred faster. So there is a limit to the importance and function of intelligence. We have a large amount of intelligence because it put us in a distinct niche. Intelligence is not therefore beneficial to all animals otherwise we would have greater competition in the big brain department – and we don’t.

In the long term just remember that dinosaurs once dominated the land, now it is our turn but probably for not much longer if we keep trying to pretend we have infinite resources.

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]]> By: JuliaM http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/08/24/tories-will-bring-back-foxhunting-by-the-back-door/#comment-12425 JuliaM Tue, 25 Aug 2009 04:18:01 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=4121#comment-12425 “All I am trying to say is there is no distinct line to put ‘humans’ in one group and ‘non-human animals’ in another – biologically speaking. Other animals have communication, tool making and in some chimp communities it is argued that there is culture passed down the generations. There is nothing that makes us completely unique in the animal kingdom.”

Oh, this is utter rubbish! I’m sorry, but it is.

Seriously, if this is what you really believe, then you’ve been misinformed by a factor of ten. As Richard points out, we have sentience, which distinguishes us from animals.

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]]> By: Richard http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/08/24/tories-will-bring-back-foxhunting-by-the-back-door/#comment-12422 Richard Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:57:01 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=4121#comment-12422 <a href='#comment-12418' rel="nofollow">@Shaun Pilkington</a> - you didn't specify livestock. You specified 'food animals'. Wild animals can, perfectly legally, be killed and eaten.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('12422','Richard'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('12422','Richard','<a href=\'#comment-12418\' rel=\"nofollow\">@Shaun Pilkington<\/a> - you didn\'t specify livestock. You specified \'food animals\'. Wild animals can, perfectly legally, be killed and eaten.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> @Shaun Pilkington – you didn’t specify livestock. You specified ‘food animals’. Wild animals can, perfectly legally, be killed and eaten.
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