Comments on: Phone hacking is a damn good idea, in my opinion http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/07/15/phone-hacking-is-a-damn-good-idea-in-my-opinion/ Daily views on British politics and the Conservative Party from a centre-right thinker who writes letters on his blog to politicians, journalists and many others. Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:48:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Sim-O http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/07/15/phone-hacking-is-a-damn-good-idea-in-my-opinion/#comment-11140 Sim-O Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:42:47 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=3699#comment-11140 <a href='#comment-11138' rel="nofollow">@Tony E</a> - Tony, I think the Telegraph is a bad example. They alleged that MPs spent money on or tried to claim for things based on receipts. They MPs were given the right of reply and what could the MPs' sue for anyway? That is exactly the sort of thing the papers should be doing. The Telegraph had evidence and it was definately in the public interest... unless you're an MP.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('11140','Sim-O'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('11140','Sim-O','<a href=\'#comment-11138\' rel=\"nofollow\">@Tony E<\/a> - \r\n\r\nTony,\r\nI think the Telegraph is a bad example.\r\nThey alleged that MPs spent money on or tried to claim for things based on receipts. They MPs were given the right of reply and what could the MPs\' sue for anyway? That is exactly the sort of thing the papers should be doing.\r\n\r\nThe Telegraph had evidence and it was definately in the public interest... unless you\'re an MP.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> @Tony E –

Tony,
I think the Telegraph is a bad example.
They alleged that MPs spent money on or tried to claim for things based on receipts. They MPs were given the right of reply and what could the MPs’ sue for anyway? That is exactly the sort of thing the papers should be doing.

The Telegraph had evidence and it was definately in the public interest… unless you’re an MP.

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]]> By: Tony E http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/07/15/phone-hacking-is-a-damn-good-idea-in-my-opinion/#comment-11138 Tony E Thu, 16 Jul 2009 06:27:47 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=3699#comment-11138 The papers have always been able to get away with phone tapping and other tricks, the law has always turned a blind eye to it to help preserve a free press and because when used properly it can lead to good investigative journalism in the public good. But look at the papers. The freedom they have is constantly misused. When was the last time we honestly believed what we read in the papers. The truth is hidden behind a wall of fabrication, designed to sell papers because they think it is what the public want to read. The Telegraph has been a prime example of this over the expenses row. They made all kinds of allegations, but politicians were given no right of reply and it is quite clear that they printed stories which they knew at the time were untrue because they thought that with the mood of the country they thought that no one could successfully sue them, or that it was worth the risk to sell the copy. Journalists, use your freedom properly, or find yourself on the end of prosecution.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('11138','Tony E'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('11138','Tony E','The papers have always been able to get away with phone tapping and other tricks, the law has always turned a blind eye to it to help preserve a free press and because when used properly it can lead to good investigative journalism in the public good.\r\n\r\nBut look at the papers. The freedom they have is constantly misused. When was the last time we honestly believed what we read in the papers. The truth is hidden behind a wall of fabrication, designed to sell papers because they think it is what the public want to read. The Telegraph has been a prime example of this over the expenses row. They made all kinds of allegations, but politicians were given no right of reply and it is quite clear that they printed stories which they knew at the time were untrue because they thought that with the mood of the country they thought that no one could successfully sue them, or that it was worth the risk to sell the copy.\r\n\r\nJournalists, use your freedom properly, or find yourself on the end of prosecution.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> The papers have always been able to get away with phone tapping and other tricks, the law has always turned a blind eye to it to help preserve a free press and because when used properly it can lead to good investigative journalism in the public good.

But look at the papers. The freedom they have is constantly misused. When was the last time we honestly believed what we read in the papers. The truth is hidden behind a wall of fabrication, designed to sell papers because they think it is what the public want to read. The Telegraph has been a prime example of this over the expenses row. They made all kinds of allegations, but politicians were given no right of reply and it is quite clear that they printed stories which they knew at the time were untrue because they thought that with the mood of the country they thought that no one could successfully sue them, or that it was worth the risk to sell the copy.

Journalists, use your freedom properly, or find yourself on the end of prosecution.

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]]> By: Matt Wardman http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/07/15/phone-hacking-is-a-damn-good-idea-in-my-opinion/#comment-11119 Matt Wardman Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:42:26 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=3699#comment-11119 The point that concerns me is that this fishing will lead to a tightening up on legitimate investigation. BTW One to watch: legal challenge to Operation Ore: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/5587354/Has-Operation-Ore-left-a-scar-on-British-justice.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/02/web-child-abuse-inquiry-challenge An appeal is planned.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('11119','Matt Wardman'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('11119','Matt Wardman','The point that concerns me is that this fishing will lead to a tightening up on legitimate investigation.\r\n\r\nBTW One to watch: legal challenge to Operation Ore:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.telegraph.co.uk\/comment\/personal-view\/5587354\/Has-Operation-Ore-left-a-scar-on-British-justice.html\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.guardian.co.uk\/uk\/2009\/jul\/02\/web-child-abuse-inquiry-challenge\r\n\r\nAn appeal is planned.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> The point that concerns me is that this fishing will lead to a tightening up on legitimate investigation.

BTW One to watch: legal challenge to Operation Ore:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/5587354/Has-Operation-Ore-left-a-scar-on-British-justice.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/02/web-child-abuse-inquiry-challenge

An appeal is planned.

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]]> By: LFAT http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/07/15/phone-hacking-is-a-damn-good-idea-in-my-opinion/#comment-11117 LFAT Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:32:29 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=3699#comment-11117 True Matt, intentions are always important and speculative hacking is no doubt very difficult to justify - if not impossible - in a court of law. The paedophile example that I came up with was obviously there to provide a context where the public might support the journalist, even if the law does not. The consequences of that support, however, can indeed be tragic.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('11117','LFAT'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('11117','LFAT','True Matt, intentions are always important and speculative hacking is no doubt very difficult to justify - if not impossible - in a court of law. The paedophile example that I came up with was obviously there to provide a context where the public might support the journalist, even if the law does not. The consequences of that support, however, can indeed be tragic.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> True Matt, intentions are always important and speculative hacking is no doubt very difficult to justify – if not impossible – in a court of law. The paedophile example that I came up with was obviously there to provide a context where the public might support the journalist, even if the law does not. The consequences of that support, however, can indeed be tragic.
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]]> By: Matt Wardman http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/07/15/phone-hacking-is-a-damn-good-idea-in-my-opinion/#comment-11116 Matt Wardman Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:22:42 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=3699#comment-11116 The defence of privilege would cover all the examples you cite, but that cannot justify hacking into phones in the hope of finding something for the paper. There was an excellent discussion of this area in the Culture/Media Commons Committee yesterday with the Guardian Journalist involved in the latest case. Here: http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=4593 I detest the "press exposure of paedophiles" angle, and hate the people who do it to benefit their newspapers, since there are a number of people who are dead - murdered by vigilantes - because they have been mistaken for those "exposed", or caught in an atmosphere of hysteria before being put on trial. Several examples: http://www.stalbansreview.co.uk/news/2284851.man_killed_was_mistaken_for_a_paedophile/ http://archive.thenorthernecho.co.uk/2005/5/4/14396.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/dec/24/childprotection.society http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/848737.stm Yes people have made mistakes, but innocent people are still dead. Rebecca Wade spearheaded this type of campaign, and she has a lot of blood on her hands.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('11116','Matt Wardman'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('11116','Matt Wardman','The defence of privilege would cover all the examples you cite, but that cannot justify hacking into phones in the hope of finding something for the paper.\r\n\r\nThere was an excellent discussion of this area in the Culture\/Media Commons Committee yesterday with the Guardian Journalist involved in the latest case. Here:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.parliamentlive.tv\/Main\/Player.aspx?meetingId=4593\r\n\r\nI detest the \"press exposure of paedophiles\" angle, and hate the people who do it to benefit their newspapers, since there are a number of people who are dead - murdered by vigilantes - because they have been mistaken for those \"exposed\", or caught in an atmosphere of hysteria before being put on trial. Several examples:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.stalbansreview.co.uk\/news\/2284851.man_killed_was_mistaken_for_a_paedophile\/\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/archive.thenorthernecho.co.uk\/2005\/5\/4\/14396.html\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.guardian.co.uk\/uk\/2001\/dec\/24\/childprotection.society\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/news.bbc.co.uk\/1\/hi\/uk\/848737.stm\r\n\r\nYes people have made mistakes, but innocent people are still dead. Rebecca Wade spearheaded this type of campaign, and she has a lot of blood on her hands.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> The defence of privilege would cover all the examples you cite, but that cannot justify hacking into phones in the hope of finding something for the paper.

There was an excellent discussion of this area in the Culture/Media Commons Committee yesterday with the Guardian Journalist involved in the latest case. Here:

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=4593

I detest the “press exposure of paedophiles” angle, and hate the people who do it to benefit their newspapers, since there are a number of people who are dead – murdered by vigilantes – because they have been mistaken for those “exposed”, or caught in an atmosphere of hysteria before being put on trial. Several examples:

http://www.stalbansreview.co.uk/news/2284851.man_killed_was_mistaken_for_a_paedophile/

http://archive.thenorthernecho.co.uk/2005/5/4/14396.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/dec/24/childprotection.society

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/848737.stm

Yes people have made mistakes, but innocent people are still dead. Rebecca Wade spearheaded this type of campaign, and she has a lot of blood on her hands.

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]]> By: LFAT http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/07/15/phone-hacking-is-a-damn-good-idea-in-my-opinion/#comment-11113 LFAT Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:42:43 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=3699#comment-11113 Like I said, context is the key which means that subjective judgements about 'public interest' and acceptability will vary depending on who is being screwed over by the journalists.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('11113','LFAT'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('11113','LFAT','Like I said, context is the key which means that subjective judgements about \'public interest\' and acceptability will vary depending on who is being screwed over by the journalists.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> Like I said, context is the key which means that subjective judgements about ‘public interest’ and acceptability will vary depending on who is being screwed over by the journalists.
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]]> By: MancUnionist http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/07/15/phone-hacking-is-a-damn-good-idea-in-my-opinion/#comment-11110 MancUnionist Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:14:47 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=3699#comment-11110 I'm alright with the journalists trying to infiltrate (even though I generally don't like it), but I'm equally alright with the Tories and any other party doing what they can to prevent it. Some of the commentators on Ian Dale's blog defended the right of papers to infiltrate whilst criticising the Conservatives for stopping infiltrators. Seems a tad hypocritical.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('11110','MancUnionist'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('11110','MancUnionist','I\'m alright with the journalists trying to infiltrate (even though I generally don\'t like it), but I\'m equally alright with the Tories and any other party doing what they can to prevent it. Some of the commentators on Ian Dale\'s blog defended the right of papers to infiltrate whilst criticising the Conservatives for stopping infiltrators. Seems a tad hypocritical.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> I’m alright with the journalists trying to infiltrate (even though I generally don’t like it), but I’m equally alright with the Tories and any other party doing what they can to prevent it. Some of the commentators on Ian Dale’s blog defended the right of papers to infiltrate whilst criticising the Conservatives for stopping infiltrators. Seems a tad hypocritical.
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]]> By: LFAT http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/07/15/phone-hacking-is-a-damn-good-idea-in-my-opinion/#comment-11109 LFAT Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:29:40 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=3699#comment-11109 Oh, you cynic!<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('11109','LFAT'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('11109','LFAT','Oh, you cynic!'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> Oh, you cynic!
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]]> By: Sim-O http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/07/15/phone-hacking-is-a-damn-good-idea-in-my-opinion/#comment-11108 Sim-O Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:19:42 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=3699#comment-11108 I think you're being a bit too kind to Iain to say that he actualy *caught* the Sunday Times trying to infiltrate a Tory donors club. Once again, Iain is merely reporting what the Tories have passed to him.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('11108','Sim-O'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('11108','Sim-O','I think you\'re being a bit too kind to Iain to say that he actualy *caught* the Sunday Times trying to infiltrate a Tory donors club.\r\n\r\nOnce again, Iain is merely reporting what the Tories have passed to him.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> I think you’re being a bit too kind to Iain to say that he actualy *caught* the Sunday Times trying to infiltrate a Tory donors club.

Once again, Iain is merely reporting what the Tories have passed to him.

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]]> By: LFAT http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/07/15/phone-hacking-is-a-damn-good-idea-in-my-opinion/#comment-11107 LFAT Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:50:11 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=3699#comment-11107 GOH, I think you're right that a lot of phone intercept evidence is inadmissable in court, but that wouldn't necessarily stop a newspaper from starting a campaign on the basis of their evidence. Maybe you're right about newspapers not always wanting to publish controversial information, but when they are newspapers that need selling.... GK, the 'public interest' issue is indeed worth mentioning but it is still largely a subjective judgement about what the law is willing to accept.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('11107','LFAT'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('11107','LFAT','GOH, I think you\'re right that a lot of phone intercept evidence is inadmissable in court, but that wouldn\'t necessarily stop a newspaper from starting a campaign on the basis of their evidence. Maybe you\'re right about newspapers not always wanting to publish controversial information, but when they are newspapers that need selling....\n\nGK, the \'public interest\' issue is indeed worth mentioning but it is still largely a subjective judgement about what the law is willing to accept.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> GOH, I think you’re right that a lot of phone intercept evidence is inadmissable in court, but that wouldn’t necessarily stop a newspaper from starting a campaign on the basis of their evidence. Maybe you’re right about newspapers not always wanting to publish controversial information, but when they are newspapers that need selling….

GK, the ‘public interest’ issue is indeed worth mentioning but it is still largely a subjective judgement about what the law is willing to accept.

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