Of course lesbian couples should be denied IVF
Dear Greater Glasgow and Clyde NHS Health Board,
Thank you for standing your ground. It’s wonderful to see that in this day and age where people throw around lawsuits like they’re going out of fashion, you have decided that you’ve done nothing wrong by refusing fertility treatment to a lesbian couple. Not only are you operating within your own rules, you are operating with a degree of common sense which is sadly not very common within the NHS and society at large.
Caroline Harris and Julie McMullan are claiming £20,000 in damages from you, claiming they are victims of discrimination because they are a same sex couple and have asked a judge to order fertility treatment for Miss Harris. You, however, insist that your expensive “assisted conception service” is for couples who have been trying without success to conceive “in the normal way”. You have 460 couples on your waiting list with a waiting time for IVF treatment of 95 weeks, and your argument is that the two women do not fit the definition of an infertile couple. Miss Harris and Miss McMullan are seeking a judicial review at the Court of Session in Edinburgh of the health board’s decision to bar them from treatment, insisting that the Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations and their European Convention rights have been breached. Their case states that in January 2007 they went to their GP and were told they would have to pay for private treatment. Miss Harris had six intrauterine insemination treatments (in which sperm is placed directly in the uterus) and one IVF treatment (in which an egg is removed and fertilised outside the body) at a private Nuffield Hospital without success. Their GP then referred them to the local Assisted Conception Unit, but a consultant told them last July that they did “not fit the criteria” for IVF. The health trust’s letter added that because they were a same sex couple “they would not be eligible for NHS funded treatment.” In their claim for damages, the couple say they have suffered “a substantial degree of distress and anxiety” as well as being put to the expense of paying for private treatment.
Outrageous, absolutely outrageous. For several reasons, you are absolutley correct to bar them from IVF on the NHS. Firstly, you pointed out that NHS fertility treatment is decided on “social and clinical” criteria i.e. there should either be a diagnosed medical problem or “failure to conceive after two years during which there has been sexual intercourse and no use of contraception”. Neither of these apply to this couple, who clearly don’t understand that ‘infertility’ is not applicable to lesbian couples in the same way as it is for heterosexual couples. The only problem they have is that they don’t want to pay for expensive private fertility treatment. Secondly, the cost. Like you said, each IVF treatment cost about £3,300 and frankly I’m in favour of cutting back on state-funded IVF regardless of this court case. We have a crippling shortage of parents looking to adopt and IVF is an incredibly expensive and frequently unsuccessful method of becoming pregnant. Thirdly, the decision of this couple to use the Equality Act to support their case is utterly ridiculous. Why? Because they’re not equal!!! Homosexual and heterosexual couples are not the same thing – do they honestly need this explaining to them? How on earth can they claim that fertility treatment should be applied equally to these two completely different forms of sexual relationships?
I’m so glad that you haven’t crumbled in the face of this unbelievable stupidity. I very much support civil partnerships, I have no problem with same-sex relationships and homosexuals should not be persecuted by society in any way. However, a quick reality check once in a while wouldn’t go amiss. To claim that there should be equal treatment of heterosexual and homosexual couples when it comes to their ‘reproductive equipment’, if you’ll excuse the phrase, is verging on lunacy. How many times have I said it – men and women are not equal, they are just different. It’s about time some people accepted this apparently confusing truth and got on with their lives without crying wolf every bloody two seconds. Congratulations to you, and best wishes with the court case.
Yours in support,
A.Tory
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I agree with every sentiment and would like to add that IVF is not only a ridiculously stupid waste of money on the NHS but it is also harmful to the potential children. Adult females reproductive capacity is designed to carry one child. Squashing a few more in just incase they don’t take is dangerous for the wellbeing of the children. There is scientific evidence for physical and mental problems of children who have had to share a womb with one or more siblings and they are often born prematurely, which has its own problems. Yet IVF doctors consistently implant three or more embryos knowing full well that most people successful with IVF have more than one embryo surviving!
As for lesbians trying to say there equally infertile I have nothing to say on this ludicrous idea. To have children is a luxury not a right!
“I’m so glad that you haven’t crumbled in the face of this unbelievable stupidity. “
I think you should have added: “…yet!”
Admit it, LFaT, you’re only writing this to get pushed up the Google rankings for the searches ‘lesbian fertilisation’. I know your game.
I’m not sure this is a gay/straight issue – I think the NHS should be there for primary health aid, and clearly IVF falls outside that remit. The vast majority of IVF cases seem to be people who have left it to their late 30’s and then suddenly decided that society owes them children. I don’t think that’s what the NHS is for, and so I would consider taking IVF treatment off the NHS except in cases where there are clear medical problems not caused by age or sexual orientation.
Why can’t they get a gay mate and a turkey baster as many lebians have done for decades?
Its annoying when people want science not to repair or redress an impaired function but to, instead, extend their abilities beyond the human norm. Like women impregnating women.
I agree lesbian and gay relationships are even more short lived than hetero ones.Would this end up as yet another state funded child if they succeed.
So they are going to claim for hurt feelings,yet another drain on the taxpayer.when will people stop being greedy and selfish.
Stu, you’ve got me – being number one for ‘Tory Lesbians’ is merely the beginning…. I think IVF should be seriously curtailed on the NHS and this whole situation just makes me believe that even more strongly.
I find it amazing that people claim discrimination when their biological makeup is different from someone else’s, but that just goes to show how ridiculous our legal and political culture has become.
Wow, the health board rolled over really quickly! They’ve caved in already!
Now I’ve always fancied, oh I don’t know, having a third arm, wings and a trunk. Some people are born with 3 arms and our lack of wings is a shocking oversight so I wonder, could I sue for that kind of transhuman adaptation and if not, how does that kind of transhuman-enhancement differ from allowing 2 women to breed?
Also, will this be the hyper-expensive IVF where they construct a sperm with one partner’s dna to fertilise the other’s egg as otherwise, presumably, that is also discriminatory as it would deny them the right to pass on their genetic code…?
Son of a ***** – that’s a ****ing disgrace, excuse my language. Well done to Julia for calling it.
Where does this madness end? If someone can claim to be discriminated against for having the wrong biological equipment, society really is in deep deep trouble.
Seriously. I want my wings! I’m disabled and if I walk off the edge of the cliff near my home, the inability to fly would have nasty consequences! I really ought to sue to have some grafted on!
LFAT I assume you mean IVF at the taxpayers’ expense rather than per se?
Hmmm. I’m totally against IVF on the NHS when a father isn’t involved, but private treatment always makes things more complicated.
Mr Tory
Have you met Mr Brown recently?
Complete lunacy.
What a shame they caved in. There was a wonderful opportunity there.
The initial consultation for infertility is the opportunity to try and identify what is going wrong. There are (incredibly) cases from time to time where the medicals all check out and it is only through a gentle chat that the medical staff discover that the problem is, shall we say, technique-related. Appropriate advice then usually solves the problem.
Surely they could have been fair and equal in their treatment of the couple by having the initial consultation to talk through possible reasons for the failure of conception…. Perhaps they could have ended by giving them a DVD with hints about what they need to do to conceive?
Then you just need a webcam and, hey presto, top ranking on YouTube…
So what makes you think you have the right to determine who has kids and who does not?
I am against IVF on the NHS because I think the NHS should be there for sickness not for lifestyle choice, but why on Earth are you saying that lesbian couples should not be allowed to choose their own method of conception?
“it is only through a gentle chat that the medical staff discover that the problem is, shall we say, technique-related. Appropriate advice then usually solves the problem.”
That made me laugh. How would that conversation go for a medical professional? ‘Ahh, Miss X and Miss Y, let me examine you. Ah yes, as I thought, neither of you have a penis or testicles which rather rules out the possibility of either of you conceiving, which is to say that neither of you can fertilise the other…’
BE – I don’t think LFAT is saying that. If they want to have IVF/whatever and pay for it, then that’s fine.
What irks is them suing because the taxpayer won’t pay for their “treatment” when, biologically speaking, there is nothing wrong with them.
Especially when all they need to do is pop into a pub and announce that they want to get pregnant.
BE: “So what makes you think you have the right to determine who has kids and who does not?”
Errr, in the case of lesbians I think God beat me to it.
Patently, delicately put as ever. I completely agree with your analysis – there is nothing wrong with these people, they just want the taxpayer to fund their lifestyle.
“Errr, in the case of lesbians I think God beat me to it.”
Or evolution for that matter.
Of course, a lot of people who are biologically able to have children are not actually capable of raising them properly & do a fairly appalling job.
It is mainly the taxpayer funding them, too.
I would rather see my national insurance contributions go towards providing a couple, no matter what sex, a child. I do not hestitate to think that for one single moment that child will not be loved. Who cares if its a same sex couple. Less money on drug adictions. Lets face it the addicts come out of expensive treatments and look for thei next fix.
Oh I am a happy married woman with a family however that should not matter.
This couple have fought for something that they believe it. Is that so wrong???
“your argument is that the two women do not fit the definition of an infertile couple.”
I am pretty sure medical science could prove that they are indeed an infertile couple. No amount of intercourse they might have is going to bear the fruit of procreation.
If they are forced under threat of imprisonment to pay for other infertile couples’ IVF treatment, it seems indefensibly arbitrary to deny them that treatment on the grounds that if one of them had sex with someone else then a child would result. After all, that is probably true of most couples who receive IVF treatment.
I thought this was 2009? Why should a lesbian couple be treated differently from a straight couple that cannot conceive? Do they not pay their taxes? contribute to society? I’m also sure that they can probably support their child without tax payers money.
Every day I see Straight unsuitable people trying at parenthood only because they are straight does that make it okay? Seeing children bringing up children! As the saying goes “you may need a license to drive but not give birth!” At least with gay couples trying to conceive they know they really want a child and go through the mill to have it and will bring the child up to understand all ways of life! Now that’s what I call our future! So why not give them the same chance as a straight couple that cannot conceive