Yet more evidence that some Muslims in this country despise British society
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Dear ‘Iftikhar’,
I don’t make a habit of writing letters to people who leave comments on my blog, but your comment yesterday in response to the news that a number of Muslim schools have been caught promoting fundamentalist beliefs were without doubt the most appalling remarks I have ever seen on this blog on any topic. First, before I dissect your comment I think it is only fair to share your diatribe in full with my readers:
“It is easy to say” Go back to where you came from” [said in response to another commentor],but do not forget that British Muslims are actually born and educated here. They are in the unenviable position of trying to combine two diffent worlds. That is no easy. Multiculturalism is not about separation, ghettoisation or balkanisation. It is, instead, a recognition of both diversity and the need for common ground, mutual respect,and cultural engagement. Muslims all over the world never opposed English as a language what they did was opposition of the Western culture and their system of education. In Pakistan, the medium of instruction is Urdu and English and the official language is both English and Urdu. Pakistan is going to send English teachers to Korea for the teaching of English language.
Muslim parents would like their children to be well versed in standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. Majority of Muslim children leave schools with low grades because state schools with monolingual teachers are not capable of teaching English to bilingual children.At the same time, they need to learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. Bilinguaaism is an asset but British schooling percieves it as a problem. I am concerned with the education of the Muslim children. It is nothing to do with integration or segregation. Those state as well as Church schools where Muslim children are in majority, in my opinion, may be designated as Muslim community schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models.
Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. Muslim schools do not encourage children to despise British society. They do not threaten social cohesion and no way fueling “ghettoisation and segregation”. According to a recent report, Danish and British parents threatened to move their children to other schools because there were too many Muslim children. People are nervous about their children’s upbringing.They feel that Muslims belong to different culture. British schooling is the home of institutional racism and this is the main reason why Muslim community and other communities need state funded schools for their children.”
Ok, let’s start with the sheer absurdity of your comment. You call for mutual respect, common ground and cultural engagement, even though Muslim schools have been caught telling children that playing chess “is like one who dips his hands in the blood of a swine (pig)”. You claim that Muslim schools do not encourage children to despise British society, despite Muslims schools being caught telling parents that “our children are exposed to a culture that is in opposition with almost everything Islam stands for”. You say that Muslim parents want their children to be well versed in English, yet decry the failure of the British taxpayer to teach Muslim children in Arabic or Urdu. You claim that Muslim children’s low grades are the direct result of the failure to teach in other languages with absolutely no supporting evidence or explanation. You want Church schools converted to Muslim schools, but would clearly never the countenance this switch in reverse. You say that “there is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school”, yet claim that this does not harm social cohesion, ghettoisation or segregation. You spout attitudes such as “there is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school”, yet wonder why British parents are nervous and think Muslims belong to a different culture.
But, aside from your ridiculous arguments, there is something more serious underlying your remarks. You are of the opinion that Muslim children are somehow different, that they deserve special treatment, that our state schools are not good enough for them. Do you hear members of the Jewish, Hindu or Buddhist community calling for Church schools to be taken away from Christians? Do they call for members of other religions to be kept away from their children? Why do some Muslims feel that this country owes them something, that we should prioritise them over every other religious or ethnic group? The British taxpayer doesn’t owe you anything. The only responsibility that the British taxpayer has in our schools is to educate everyone in a tolerant, respectful and inclusive environment. It is bigotted morons like you that get in the way of these aims. I don’t know how many Muslims agree with you and your ‘London School of Islamics’ and I don’t care if you’re a sixth-generation Muslim or you turned up in this country yesterday – this country should never change its core values in response to other people’s demands, and if you have a problem with how we do things then it is you that has to change, not us.
Yours contemptfully,
A.Tory
Witanagemot Blogs
Dear Mr Tory,
I know that you need to keep your letters to a moderate length, but you seem to have been particularly mild and moderate in this one, and though fully responding to the offensive and nauseating points that this man made, I would have liked to see them left in irreparably torn shreds.
Hmmm, interesting point, although please bear in mind that I have to abide by my own ‘no swearing’ policy.
I said my bit in my ranty comment-riposte to the original quote yesterday. I can’t say I’m any less outraged by the sentiments of Iftikhar but I have nothing to add unless or until he choses to reply to some of the critiques put of his opinion.
[...] Yet more evidence that some Muslims in this country despise … [...]
Why are they viewed as “Muslim children” at all? They are children of Muslim parents, raised within Islam, but they themselves are too young to have religious beliefs of their own.
You wouldn’t talk about “Tory children” or “Liberal Democrat children”, so why this?
My last post was vaguely on this subject. I am not blind to the problems Islam has & the majority of liberals faced up to it some time ago. We think, for the most part, that the liberating forces will come from within Islam. Sooner or later people will get tired of sectarian, illiberal nonsense of the kind that Iftikhar spouts. Do you think he’d find any pals if he spoke to young people in Iran?
You do have to find a middle ground between Muslim sectarians (a minority who are, in fact, tacitly encouraged by various state policies which could easily be changed) & those who vilify all Muslims.
At times like this I am sometimes told that I am a hopeless idealist. But I point to the millions of allies I have within the Muslim world. They are ready to throw off the burdens that top men have placed on them. Western feminists & liberals will not show indulgence any longer. Yes, some of them still do but only because they haven’t realised yet.
One of the most heartening pieces of news I’ve heard in ages was the Iraqi election result in which the ordinary folk of Iraq rejected Islamism. It tempted me to think the surge may have been vindicated, as much as we can criticise the botched implementation. We should cultivate our allies.
Sooner or later people will start rejecting imported imams with nothing of any relevance to say & start demanding British-born preachers who can speak to the concerns of Muslim youth, which are pretty much the same as other youngsters especially in the recession.
Returning from my digression, barring faith schools from receiving public money would aye help. The sort of attitudes Iftikhar wants should not be financed by me & those like me. There are actually a lot of laudable attitudes amongst some Muslims towards education, & even the poorest will make real efforts that white parents won’t. They would be natural candidates for organising their own education free of state interference, & I don’t think this sort of reactionary nonsense would be taught in their schools as most would reject it.
The teaching of Urdu, & Chinese, & Spanish & what have you are things that are praiseworthy. This could be a model for them doing it themselves & not demanding the council wipe their bottoms for them.
Re: my second to last paragraph, it has long been my conclusion that every ethnic minority group you can think of, including asylum seekers, contains large numbers of natural Tories. The GOP in America appealed to various immigrant groups, most notably Hispanics but also types like the Vietnamese. This is a lot of what Cameron is doing.
The writer to whom you respond I feel may well represent a large number of the same opinion, but I’d hasten to add this is not reflective of ALL Islamic opinion. However, it appears, for whatever reason, that either these fundamental views have grown these last 20 years, OR, they were always there but not really given much credence because government policy was different. It wasn’t pledging come live with us and take our country, before Labour entered on the scene.
Let me say I don’t despise the posters views for I believe they are honestly expressed. He is after all expressing his fundamental belief and he’s entitled to that belief. However, I am also entitled to mine and my view is completely irreconcilable with his. To say there is “no place” for a Christian in this country is ( in my view ), warrant enough to be considered incitement. Yet how should one react? Do we protest that this country is “OUR” country when our government has policies which say this is not so? – When our government has or is almost “begging” for “OUR” country to be infested with all manner of opinions, cultures, views, social attitudes and basically “anything” as long as it isn’t English and Christian?
So I blame our government. I do not blame the poster for his views because I can understand they are completely incompatible to mine and thus if I was a government minister and still sane, then I would obviously know what any man woman of child could tell the present government about how effing stupid it is to think you can mix water with oil in terms of Christianity and Islamic cultures. I blame BLAIR and his pathetic “Yale University” driven beliefs in globalisation and multiculturalism. I do not blame muslims per se. ( Except those with fundamental beliefs which will NEVER accommodate me or my views and will only ever continue to adopt hostility in “MY” country, which I lastly note is NOT a “secular” country, it is a CHRISTIAN country. No religious beliefs have any place in our politics and no person preaching that it should, should be permitted to preach it.
Sadly, I am minded of the many muslims I used to know personally, and being able to speak on their behalf here because 30 years of personal interaction has enabled me to do this, I can honestly and firmly say, that they would likely think the poster is talking utter crap if they read his post.
Asquith, I hope you’re right that radical imams start getting rejected, but as long as Jacqui Smith happily lets radical preachers reside in the UK then I can’t see this happening any time soon.
Rugfish, I am well aware that this commentor does not represent the views of all Muslims but that doesn’t make his views any less troubling. For a religion to have a subset of people who are intent on driving a wedge between them and the rest of British society is deeply disturbing.
Shaun, thanks for your comments yesterday, incisive as ever.
If he represents some but not others, is it not best to support the others?
A secular state.
No funding for faith schools.
The end of relativism.
Support for women’s rights, gay rights & general liberal policies in the Muslim world.
All these would find takers. Despite what the likes of Rowan Williams would have you believe, there is not some monolith of Muslims all of whom are the same as each other & all of whom long for Sharia law.
Individualism.
I think his views are not so much troubling as appalling to be honest. In case anyone forgot. There’s a whole lot more of us than there are of ‘them’. If they feel like parading their lunatic beliefs in public and kicking up in my country then I’m sure there are plenty who’d equally like to stop them.
It is no answer of course, but certainly the government should be aware that Englishmen will not sit idly by forever and a day watching their country be turned into a backwater.
Salaam
Less than 5% of Muslim children attend Musslim schools while 96% attend state schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. They are exposed to racism in all walks of life by the fellow students as well as by the chicken racist teachers. The National Curriculum does not satisfy their needs and demands. They grow up to beecome angry, frustrated and extremist.
Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.
Muslim schools performed best overall, although they constitute only a fraction of the country’s 7000 schools. Muslim schools do well because of their Islamic ethos and a focus on traditional discipline and teaching methods. They teach children what is right and what is wrong, because young children need structural guidance. No one paid any attention to the fact that none of the alleged attackers went to Muslim schools. They had not been brought up in religious families at all. They had gone to state schools, and had fully integrated and tasted and lived the ‘British way of life’ in many ways. They had only come to religion relatively late. The attackers were used as an excuse to target and demonise Muslim schools with no valid reason. This is the main reason why non-Muslims are hell bent upon eleminating Muslim
There are hundreds of state and Church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion all such schools may be designated a sMuslim Community schools.
Iftikhar Ahmad
http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
It is no answer of course, but certainly the government should be aware that Englishmen will not sit idly by forever and a day watching their country be turned into a backwater.
I’ve said this for years; in this regard, I’m not worried as the numerical odds are about 28:1 (with about 60m people in the country and 2m of them Muslim) but under the circumstances where it becomes that kind of numbers game, I’m wary about us having to do something fairly nasty.
Not because of sympathy for the people we’ll do it to (although there is a bit of that) but because of the enormous price we’ll pay in our humanity for doing it. Think German war-guilt. As someone far brighter and more eloquent than I observed, when you look into the Abyss, the Abyss looks into you – I know from my own past that when you grapple with monstrous Islamic fundies, its easy to lose your own morality and humanity in your battle to win. Look at how we and the states have behaved since 9/11 – wars, illegal secret prisons, ‘rendition’, Gitmo, torture galore… In response to the murder of 3000 by folks who revel in beheadings and floggings and other barbarism.
A big problem is that young people like to feel they are rebelling against the older generation.In Islam there is no chance as its so controling so these young people are ripe fodder for radicals.Schools are a good place to start.Plus the older generation is worried at the westernisation of their young.Then the fact that muslims are treated with kid gloves and now expect preferential treatment in all walks of life so now any resistance to their demands is classed as discrimination instead of fair mindedness.
The sad fact is you cannot tell which muslim would love to blow us up from one who just wants to be left in peace to get on with their life so suspicion covers all.I do wonder if their is a secret worldwide agenda for,forceful as opposed to peaceful,islamification,it’s happening in too many countries all at the same time.
Shaun,I don’t think muslims worry themselves unduly about using force,as you say,stoning,beheading,flogging and hanging homosexuals from cranes is everyday living for them.Islam does not seem to value life,only death.
Sadly I don’t think dialog will stop them.
“I’m not worried as the numerical odds are about 28:1 (with about 60m people in the country and 2m of them Muslim”
Subtract the women, gays, & those who are at least potentially liberal from that 2 million figure. All could be won over even if it hasn’t happened yet.
You’d be left with a few bearded nits in dressing gowns who are the laughing stock of everyone else with their pretentions to speak for anyone but themselves.
What worries me is that is may take something massive before sections of the British establishment change their minds, & this is exactly what no one wants to happen.
It also concerns me that we focus on terrorists versus non-terrorists. There are perfectly peaceful people who would never blow anyone up BUT whose agendas should be opposed.
Am still confident that this worldwide struggle will be won.
Numerically it is a foregone conclusion when it comes down to rabble fighting rabble I guess, as sheer weight would overwhelm the situation. I watched a Panorama special last night ( hence my interest in this subject today ), and basically it showed there’s an awful lot of real hatred out there for “us” and our ways. Large numbers at a mosque don’t really count for that much if gates are opened to those who would have no problem in retaliating against that hatred, so I think basically allowing crap to be shouted about our country should either be stopped OR let the retaliates shout back. That would never happen of course because it would certainly lead to pandemonium, bloodshed and lots of innocents on both sides coming to harm.
I think the thing to do is to make a statement about our country and our values, and about our culture. I think we must say that we are British, we are happy to engage multiracial groups but that our inherited culture will not be so tolerant so as to allow itself to be defeated simply by ignorance of politicians who dishonour our culture. I actually think that a good place to start would be by making an updated written constitution to “preserve” the Magna Carta and our Bill of Rights, and to CONFIRM that we ( and our politicians ), pledge allegiance and honour to our CHRISTIAN HERITAGES. One of which is tolerance and the other is the will to fight against those who would seek to destroy it. – You’ll note this has nothing to do with “race” and everything to do with “culture”.
Any politician ( or Lord ) should resign if they cannot attach their allegiance to it ( and to our crown ).
Secondly, this would actually create a situation whereby the more controversial aspects of the BNP for instance, and of course the Islamic preachers of doom, would be conjointly acting “unconstitutionally” if they failed to mend their ways.
It isn’t a new idea either.
The Russian federation has such a constitution and it therefore has the ability to stop protestors who are acting “unconstitutionally” as they are in fact acting against the state ( which includes muslims and BNP supporters and all manner of religions and atheists ), but NOT to the detriment of the silent majority who would in fact overwhelm the lot of them if they were ever able.
Another thing I’d do, is I’d ensure every school, hospital, public building and every Town Hall, had an English and a Union flag outside it. I’d criminalize any act of defaming either as they represent our state.
I think enough is enough for us and for moderate muslims who like us just want to live in peace.
We do need a proclamation saying exactly what we will and will not tolerate.A line needs to be drawn.There has been too much hesitancy to confront this problem and it will not go away.
Now we need plain speaking and yes an oath of allegiance,and you must speak the language to become a british citizen.No need for religion to enter it at all though unless it interferes with the oath.
As I said in a previous post and will keep on saying”fit in or get put”
Iftikar, nice to have you back, apologies for the delay in publishing your comment. Your nonsensical tirade continues…
“96% attend state schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. They are exposed to racism in all walks of life by the fellow students as well as by the chicken racist teachers.”
Do you think that might have something to do with the fact that Muslim schools and parents continue to demand special treatment, or that the pupils don’t integrate properly due to their attitudes towards non-Muslims, or that some Muslims pour scorn on the British way of life? To accuse teachers of racism is also appalling given the complete lack of evidence. Claims of persecution have no place in political debate unless you can substantiate them.
“The National Curriculum does not satisfy their needs and demands.”
And what needs and demands are these? The ‘need’ for Muslim teachers in Muslim schools and the ‘demands’ for non-Muslim children to be kept away from Muslims? Everyone else in this country is fine with the National Curriculum so stop demanding special treatment. For all its flaws, the National Curriculum is designed to provide a rounded education for everyone and is no place for religious teachings or indoctrination.
“Muslim schools do well because of their Islamic ethos and a focus on traditional discipline and teaching methods. They teach children what is right and what is wrong.”
I think I’ve heard enough about non-existent women’s rights and forced marriages to know that when a fundamentalist Islamic teacher talks about ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ they should be cracked down on, not encouraged.
“The attackers were used as an excuse to target and demonise Muslim schools with no valid reason.”
No valid reason? I’m sorry? These young men were radicalised by other Muslims, not by Christians or Hindus or Jews or anyone else. Muslim schools are not being demonised here – it is your unacceptable attitude towards inclusion, tolerance and acceptance that is being demonised.
Honestly.
*roll eyes*
LFAT, you are casting pearls before swine (to use a wholly inappropriate metaphor), but please add me as a signatory anyway.
And so Iftikar proves the importance of free speech.
If his rantings were suppressed, we would not be able to expose the incoherence of his “argument”. We might be left with the mistaken impression that he had a valid point.
“They grow up to become angry, frustrated and extremist”.
This is NORMAL in Britain mate.
We’re all “angry” and “frustrated” and some are “extreme”.
The only difference is we don’t go round screaming about it because it’s against the law, and we don’t go bombing people to bits when we can’t get our own way.
Maybe you need to think about it a bit more?
Dear Mr Iftikhar,
This country is obviously so inimical to you in so many absoluyely fundamental ways, and especially in refusing to comply – ever, believe me – with your demands, that it strikes me as curious that you and those who think as you do should wish to live here at all.
But would free speech be allowed if his ilk ran the country?
But would free speech be allowed if his ilk ran the country?
Of course not. If you hold that Muslims may exclude non-Muslims from their schools, but non-Muslims may not discriminate against Muslims, then it follows perfectly logically that free speech may only be permitted if the speaker wishes to enunciate a permitted opinion.
I think Patently is right. Free speech is already under huge pressure thanks to a weak government and a failure to stand up for the basic values that are supposed to underpin our democracy. I have no doubt that should a theoretical Islamic government be in place, the situation would be a million times worse.
I think *any* religious government would act to restrict free speech (although the CoE was, predictably, split on the issue of the Blasphemy laws) which is why ZaNuLab’s insidious laws about ‘religious hatred’ will, in time, be a billion times worse than the old Blasphemy situation….
The Daily Telegraph says;
Quote:
“The long-term social consequences of unfettered immigration have not been considered by Labour. But those consequences will be profound. If immigration continues at its present rate, Britain’s population is projected to increase by 18 million over the next 30 years. The impact on public services, on the environment and on our society as a whole will be enormous. And yet Labour has no plans to place a cap on the number of immigrants allowed into Britain. No wonder the British electorate, which was never consulted about the matter, is deeply unhappy”.
http://tinyurl.com/bp84ln
I’d say “deeply unhappy” is a gross understatement. What the Labour Policy is doing, is destroying the very fabric of our society. Our local capabilities to place youngsters and men into work. Our natural ability to skill our workforce. Our ability to buy homes, to save, to prosper as a people. To upset and possibly rid us of the remnants of our culture. It’s a perfect recipe for crass government and a death knell to our indigenous populace with all of it’s vitality and cultural heritages gained over a thousand years. It is sinking the state to the point where we cannot thrive as a people because we have to ‘compete’ against people who are helping through not much fault of their own, to destroy these things.
There’s an economic side to this too and again it’s Labour’s fault. The housing, together with immigrant numbers requiring extra shelter, has been lax yet the growth in residential ownership buy Buy to Let developers seeking to gain profits in a higher rental market due to immigration overflow, has led to an upward spiral in property prices which indigenous people cannot afford. The government buys up the stocks and rents them out to immigrants. Consequently, we have 5 million of our people waiting for social housing rather then looking to buy, and a dearth of youngsters with no hope of ever gaining a home. This will dissolve families. It will and is and has, created manifest indebtedness from which many millions of people will never recover as they too are thrown out of their homes by bailiffs. This will lead to an even bigger problem than the government can ever imagine. Not only are all of the above things happening now, but they will get far worse as millions of people become ’subprime’ and ‘toxic’ and a risk to lenders if and when they ever pick themselves up again. They will be given poor quality loans at that time IF they ever bother to look to buy another home of their own. Meanwhile, if immigration is not stopped and taken into decline, then we’ll see immigrants in better housing and the indigenous people in social housing and living like tramps.
Labour should resign because no one can stand for it any longer. I wouldn’t blame people if they went out on the streets and started rioting to be honest over this appalling government, and yet I hear David Cameron and his politically correct party not saying a word about it. Does he think we don’t know. That we don’t see it. That we can’t tell when things are wrong? – BOTH parties need to be kicked to hell and back for the state they’ve made by action or inaction of my country.
http://rugfish.blogspot.com/2009/02/immigration-in-uk-making-us-unhappy.html#links
And now tell me what you really think….
Yeah, well, it’s been brewing up !
I didn’t think you’d noticed….lol
That bloke added to the Telegraph and others has got me a bit riled up LFAT.
Its looking like the perfect storm for extremists. Immigration, Xenophobia, Islamisation, buggered economies, unemployment, homelessness. Its like the 1930s all over again but hopefully this time at least we’ll point out that the bad guys are National *Socialists*, not ‘national freemarketeers’, and remember that the BNP is of the racist left, not the racist right!
On freedom of thought and speech (Patently at 1:21 and others) in this “ideal” philosophy propounded by Iftikhar, we already have a model, Iran, where in elections you may vote for any candidate you like – but only if they’re permitted to be candidates in the first place.
I lived in Iran for some time (prior to 1979, naturally) and most of the “middle class” people that I came into contact with were remarkably similar to ourselves in most ways – hopes, desires, objectives. Unfortunately they allowed themselves to be tricked into giving up their natural freedoms to a small minority of religious zealots.
If there was one characteristic that applied to most people it was that they were gullible and easily-led. That said, Iran has its own history and can’t be considered “typical” of Islamic countries, if indeed any one is.
What I have never understood about muslims in this country is the fear they have of their own kind. If they had no fear then surely these moderate, non-bombing, people would stand up and say what a disgrace it is that all there are all these atrocities in the name of Allah. However, there is only silence so we must conclude that either they agree with the extreme action or are too scared to stand out.
As I see it most religions in the past and Islam as it is today are based on fear. Fear of going to hell, fear of displeasing God, fear of getting stoned to death for being raped!, fear of getting stoned to death for showing your face! This fear is not to be encouraged in Britain and especially not in schools with impressionable children.
I have to agree with dmc – fit in or get out. There are plenty of places in the world were wearing a sheet is not considered wierd or fancy dress – If you want an islamic upbringing in an islamic culture then go to an islamic country – it’s simple.
If you want an islamic upbringing in an islamic culture then go to an islamic country – it’s simple.
Oh what? You want a career other than digging sh*t out of the ground or pandering to your local religious stongman (see the Mahdi army)? Well sh*t, then you’d better stay in the West but you need to ask yourself if maybe the reason the West has its riches and opportunities is not because of it post-Enlightenmentvalues.
It isn’t simple for a moderate muslim to speak out against not so moderate muslims for the simple reason that if they did so it would CREATE more immoderate muslims and make it worse.
Muslims consider speaking against a brother to be worthy of wrath being pitted against him. The moderate muslim must hold his tongue and tread carefully for this reason, especially in a society which neither understands them or would back them and in which many would want to see them gone. There are muslims and there are Islamists and many factions in between. What we had prior to labour were runaway muslims, fleeing to a good country like Britain. What we have now is a melting pot waiting to boil over and moderate muslims are most susceptible to being the one’s who get hurt.
Look 20 years ago to what exists now in the UK and I think it’s a crying shame for many on both sides.
Thats what I was saying earlier rugfish,it’s all gone militant now,why?Could it be there are too many now and we feel threatened or is it they feel more powerful.When your a small minority it is easier to mix,when bigger there’s no need to.
“Less than 5% of Muslim children attend Musslim schools while 96% attend state schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. They are exposed to racism in all walks of life by the fellow students as well as by the chicken racist teachers. The National Curriculum does not satisfy their needs and demands. They grow up to beecome angry, frustrated and extremist.”
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, YOU’RE EXHIBITING THE MOST PROFOUND EXAMPLE OF RACISM I HAVE READ IN A LONG TIME. IF THE NATIONAL CURRICULUM DOES NOT SATISFY YOU AND YOURS, AND OUR SOCIETY IS SO ABBHORANT TO YOU, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY WHERE YOU FEEL MORE UNDERSTOOD.
“Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.”
ANOTHER FANATICAL, RACIST COMMENT, WHICH AT NO POINT DEMONSTRATES ANY KIND OF ALTRUISM OR RESPECT FOR BRITISH VALUES WHATSOEVER.
“Muslim schools do well because of their Islamic ethos and a focus on traditional discipline and teaching methods. They teach children what is right and what is wrong, because young children need structural guidance.”
IF YOU ABHOR THE BRITISH SYSTEM SO MUCH, REMOVE YOURSELF FROM IT. DO NOT CONTINUALLY TRY TO CHANGE US. QUEEN ELIZABETH & QUEEN VICTORIA WILL BE TURNING IN THEIR GRAVES.
“GOD SAVE THE QUEEN” (BTW)
There was a few similar comments from a commenter on Webcameron a while back. Maybe a coincidence.
Sorry, forgot to add the commenter also called him/herself Iftikhar. We had a couple of conversations.
There are specific intelligence communities who designated funds and agents to rally people against each other.
I won’t name them but they brought us the last world war and made us believe they are the only victims of it.
Do your homework.
“I won’t name them but they brought us the last world war and made us believe they are the only victims of it.”
‘Nazis? I hate those guys….’
Also, lets be clear on this: Muslim is NOT a race. It is a religion. Hence, no racism.
Many Muslim scholars have stated in the past that if you’re not happy with a country’s laws, rules or values then you should remove yourself from it and refrain from complaints.
@rugfish, I myself am a Muslim and its true that some moderate muslims don’t speak up against immoderate muslims. I myself don’t have this problem as I will speak my mind and try to speak to them in a reasonable manner. Some of them are still ignorant but I always explain that Islam doesn’t encourage ignorance but oh well..
And asquith. WTF? Not cool man..
“You’d be left with a few bearded nits in dressing gowns who are the laughing stock of everyone else with their pretentions to speak for anyone but themselves.”
Fair point. Asquith, behave yourself.
Pursue -
This is a post I placed yesterday on another blog about it. It’s quite long but I think it covers what is happening and why.
You know mate, the internal threat to our borders has never been greater since Labour signed the open door arrangement and the HRA. We all know this was to appease lefties and to do the grab in Europe to try to get the UK at the top seat. Personally, given what I’ve researched on this, and on Blair’s indulgence with Yale and his globalisation and multicultural program along with Strobe Talbott, it is as plain as the nose on my face that this pandering to Islam is for very many reasons.
Politically, what did Blair and Bush want:-
1 – They wanted Iraq
2 – They wanted to stop Islam in Palestine and Syria and Pakistan.
3 – They needed to be in Afghanistan as a bolt hole on Pakistan. They wanted to ease the way with India ( the lady was assassinated ), they took Iraq and they closed in on Iran. Iran from where the fundamentalists lay. ( You can see it like reading a book ). Next thing you know is Georgia moves in on South Ossetia ( to remedy that and Abkhazia ) to gain the port AND bases in Georgia to surround IRAN. If you read the Yale University websites and this UN reform document here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/11468748/Reforming-Un
Then you start to get the picture as to what’s behind it all.
They also say EU countries have an open door but the door is closed to non-EU members.
Do they mention that Algeria is flooding into France and ‘French’ are flooding into the UK? – NO.
Do they mention that other EU countries are taking North African’s, giving them EU passports and citizenship and they are flooding into the UK? – NO they don’t.
Do they ever say, we’ve closed the door to illegals who happen to have the ability ( apparently ) to arrive here despite we have 30 miles of sea between us and Europe? NO, they do not.
What DO they tell us?
They tell us that security forces are working none stop to keep an eye on ‘known suspects’ and fundamentalists.
I’ll ask you whether if you believe me when I say I lived with entire muslim families for nearly 30 years, I’ve visited mosques and I’ve traded all that time with muslims and I know it like the back of my hand. My ex-wife’s father now deceased was a muslim. I can say without any hesitation that he and others “fitted in”, and that none of my ex’s siblings were ‘bothered’. They were all Christians and the father was muslim. The difference being non existent, until someone began giving us ISLAM and Islamics as opposed to just plain old peaceful muslims.
What we have now is ten or more years of ‘infiltration’, and we have ten or more years of our government ‘welcoming’ refugees from Iraq and Afghanistan to avoid a humanitarian crisis and a big political pile of crap on their faces, and what we have are lots of people ‘mixed’ with our one time peaceful muslims telling them how to live their lives under Allah. What we had before were muslims who had ‘escaped’. Now we have muslims who are afraid to open their mouths except to go along with ISLAM.
It is my friend, very difficult and a poor situation which has been created by us. Personally, I think the CIA are here to try to a ) Keep the lid on it, b ) To stop them going to the USA, and c ) To direct government immigration policy so it can be improved before a culture war occurs in the UK. That’s why I hang on to being a Christian. I have to. I’m an agnostic but I know if I give it up then this country is ‘nothing’.
On the question of Islam I’ve maintained silence for these last I don’t know how many numbers of years. I suppose like many, I am a “watcher”. Instead I fought or opinionated on the economy, yet I have researched these things extensively despite I made no comment. Now I have changed to make comment. Why? – Well I’ve tied it all together and I know why it’s happening and it isn’t anything to do with “racial attitudes”. It is to do with “culture”. But more than that, it is to do with the political and economic policies of us. That is our leaders. It isn’t because of some blind hate muslims have for us. ( Islamics yes, muslims in general no ).
You might find this interesting: http://tinyurl.com/advs9y
Please open all the links and ensure you read through the UN reform study regarding globalisation. Tony Blair, Strobe Talbott, Bush, etc, etc….AND Clinton(s), are part of the manifest determinate plan to ‘globalise’ – Faith, Politics, Economic, Commerce and Security. Of course no one has been asked about it and the EU presses ahead with its part which is “enlargement” – i.e. Globalisation.
Once you understand it all you stop being angry about it and watch it play out. As individuals we are part of it and we are all only innocent bystanders.
My views are a lot more moderate than mny expressed here, surely. My point (which I tried to express with a bit of levity & that) was that if the various people who are/would be the victims of theocrats, most notably women, were empowered then it would become obvious that self-appointed religious “leaders” do not speak for most Muslims any more than Nick Griffin speaks for every single member of the white working class (a claim he’d probably make for himself but I’d angrily reject).
A lot of the Muslims I meet are refugees from such countries as Iran & they are in no mood fr the sort of oppression they’ve escaped from. I don’t have the statistics to hand but don’t be at all surprised if it’s the second, third & fourth generations who are turning to extremism rather than recent arrivals. They are the model for what a country wants the people coming to live in it to be.
You may not like my phraseology but why shouldn’t those who claim to speak for others be ridiculed? I resent it when people claim to represent me if they don’t. Likewise, it should not be tolerated when the government & the likes of Leaveinshame concert with those who claim to be spokesmen for all Muslims in Britain.
My inspiration in all this business is the work of Johann Hari which returns regularly to the theme.
What do you mean your views are more moderate? So the views you expressed here you didn’t mean?
No I don’t like your phraseology as it is quite offending, although I understand what you’re trying to get at. But if I was to ridicule someone such as Nick Griffin, I don’t think it’s necessary for me to talk about the way he dresses in order to help prove a point. Especially as other people that may look or dress like him, are nothing like him.
And the whole recent arrivals v third and fourth generations doesn’t really matter in my opinion, because if a muslim sees that other Muslims are being victimised here and around the globe then they may stray towards extremism.
Oh and thanks rugfish, I’m about to check all those links now
No, I mean my views are more moderate than many commentors here (sorry, “mny” was a typo!).
I wasn’t talking about the clothes people wear & it was probably a mistake to imply otherwise. Just replace that phrase with something like “pretentious idiots who think they somehow represent other people because they are self-appointed ‘leaders’”.
http://tinyurl.com/bazgv6 is a post of mine & a good example of my thinking & that.
Yes, it contains profanity but maybe you’ll find the points agreeable.
Most British Muslims are under 25. They suffer from Identity Crises including Ed Husain, because they have been mis-educated and de-educated by state schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. Imams and Masajid have done a wonderful job by teaching Muslim children the Holly Quran and some basic Islamic traditions and rituals. But that is not enough. The first wave of Muslim migrants arrived with their cultures, languages and faith. Majority of British Muslims are from Pakistan and this is the main reason why majority of Masajid were set up by the Pakistanis with their own Imams from Pakistan who are well versed in Arabic, Urdu and Persian and lot of them also well versed in English. They deliver lectures in Arabic and Urdu and will keep on delivering in those languages. English is our economic language while Arabic and Urdu is our social, emotional and spiritual languages. I have been campaigning for state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers for the last 35 years so that Muslim children could be well versed in English, Arabic, Urdu and other community languages. They need to learn standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. They need to learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. But unfortunately, no body paid any attention to my proposal in the beginning. I set up the first Muslim schools in 1981 and now there are 166 Muslim schools and only ten are state funded. Less than 5 % of Muslim children are in Muslim schools while 96 % are still mis-educated and de-educated in state and Church schools with those teachers who are not role models for them. There are hundreds of state and Church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools so that young Muslim children could feel pride in their culture, languages and faith.
Iftikhar Ahmad
http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
Wow. Because while you (intemperately, I assume, unless you’re a nutjob) said:
there is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school
On the front page of that website it proclaims:
Multifaith Schools
The Church of England has thrown its weight behind an extraordinary proposal to unite Muslim, Jewish, Christian and Hindu children in the country’s first multi-faith secondary school. The plans, backed by leading figures, are aimed at transforming the image of faith-based education which has been criticized in the wake of last summer race riots.
Which, by the way, is a pretty solid description of the comprehensive I went to in North London. No single faith got pushed and there were people from all backgrounds there, for all its many, many faults.
So what’s the score? Are you just bad at arguing or are you a bit confused about the words you use?
Sorry Iftikhar, I’m a 20 year old Muslim and don’t have an identity crisis. I follow my religion and have friends/colleagues from many different faiths and cultures, and we all get along fine! If I had gone to an all muslim school it would make it harder for me to interact with my fellow Britons. Your ideas if implemented would just cause more segregation and in turn lead to more discrimination.
Also, I’m fluent in Arabic as I used to go to Arabic school every saturday. So you dont really need it in schools!
“Are you just bad at arguing or are you a bit confused about the words you use?”
I’m thinking this isn’t necessarily an ‘either/or’ situation, frankly…
Quote:
‘Muslim parents would like their children to be well versed in standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity.’ Unquote.
What a load of garbage. ‘…to serve humanity’ Lies, lies and more lies.
The whole aim of Islam is to destroy everyone and everything that doesn’t mindlessly follow their evil, destructive, bigotted and dangerous ‘religion’.
Where is the humanity in Islam? The short anwer is that there is no humanity in Islam.
And, for those who spout the mostly used-in-the-wrong-context word, ‘Racist’ I would suggest they consider two points here;
1. There is no group of people quite so racist and, frighteningly, quite so numerous as those who follow the ‘religion’ of Islam, and
2. The term ‘Racist’ is a mental gag that erodes our freedom: freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of belief.
How many of these fanatics, born in Britain, have ever had to live within an Islamic country – had to abide by the rules, had no freedom of speech whatsoever. You are a bunch of hypocites.
Quote, ‘There are hundreds of state and Church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools so that young Muslim children could feel pride in their culture, languages and faith.
Iftikhar Ahmad’ unquote.
I suggest you and your ilk leave our Christian country, vacate our Christian schools – they being so awful and all that – and go reside where you can swallow all the indoctrination you desire.
We, as a nation are sick and tired of you.
Besides, it’s not ‘racist’ because Muslims are not a race.
it’s racist and you know this
Yeah? Which race, then?
Racial group means any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin.
Well according to the UK Government anyway.
That’s not the point anyway, even if it wasn’t technically ‘racist’ you can’t just disrespect every member of a religion and then just say, well its not really a race anyway so I may say what I like..