Comments on: Obese people should not be allowed to adopt children http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/01/12/obese-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-adopt-children/ Daily views on British politics and the Conservative Party from a centre-right thinker who writes letters on his blog to politicians, journalists and many others. Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:10:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Madyson http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/01/12/obese-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-adopt-children/#comment-6060 Madyson Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:21:09 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1852#comment-6060 He's in Obese Class III. I did the actual numbers and his actual BMI is 45.2 which no one else seemed notice. Everyone else just mentioned that it was more than 42. This means something. It means that he is at significantly higher risk. Everyone else is simply fudging the numbers trying to make it look better than is. Jeez, someone just tell the truth.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('6060','Madyson'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('6060','Madyson','He\'s in Obese Class III. I did the actual numbers and his actual BMI is 45.2 which no one else seemed notice. Everyone else just mentioned that it was more than 42. This means something. It means that he is at significantly higher risk. Everyone else is simply fudging the numbers trying to make it look better than is. Jeez, someone just tell the truth.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> He’s in Obese Class III. I did the actual numbers and his actual BMI is 45.2 which no one else seemed notice. Everyone else just mentioned that it was more than 42. This means something. It means that he is at significantly higher risk. Everyone else is simply fudging the numbers trying to make it look better than is. Jeez, someone just tell the truth.
Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: Madyson http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/01/12/obese-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-adopt-children/#comment-6059 Madyson Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:11:23 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1852#comment-6059 It's rather obvious to me that they are both too fat to be granted a child. The BMI limits should be lowered even further. Didn't anyone see the woman? They could barely fit them both into the camera frame. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they could raise a child to adulthood. Pitiful that people let themselves go like that.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('6059','Madyson'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('6059','Madyson','It\'s rather obvious to me that they are both too fat to be granted a child. The BMI limits should be lowered even further. Didn\'t anyone see the woman? They could barely fit them both into the camera frame. I wouldn\'t be the least bit surprised if they could raise a child to adulthood. Pitiful that people let themselves go like that.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> It’s rather obvious to me that they are both too fat to be granted a child. The BMI limits should be lowered even further. Didn’t anyone see the woman? They could barely fit them both into the camera frame. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if they could raise a child to adulthood. Pitiful that people let themselves go like that.
Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: patently http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/01/12/obese-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-adopt-children/#comment-5939 patently Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:15:00 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1852#comment-5939 Yes, that's my judgement. I don't need an electrician to change a lightbulb for me; I don't need a lawyer to tell me that theft is illegal; I don't need a doctor to tell me that a BMI of 42 and a weight over 24 stone is unhealthy. At the margin, yes; a professional's opinion is needed. But 42 is not marginal relative to a healthy range of 18-25. <i>Are you suggesting as well that our nanny state should take children away from those parents?</i> No. There is a world of difference between taking away the natural children of people we think might not be good parents, and the decision to place a child with someone we think might not make a good parent. Childless couples do not like to have it pointed out to them (I know, I spent 4 sad years staring into that particular abyss), but it is still true that there are plenty of people who will not and should not be approved as adoptive parents but whose natural children should not be confiscated. If anyone develops a crystal ball that can remove all element of doubt from these decisions, then the two thresholds could be brought together. Absent that magical device, we have to decide in which direction to err when there is reasonable doubt. That must be in favour of the child; which means either leaving it with its natural parents or waiting until a suitable adoptive parent becomes available.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('5939','patently'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('5939','patently','Yes, that\'s my judgement. I don\'t need an electrician to change a lightbulb for me; I don\'t need a lawyer to tell me that theft is illegal; I don\'t need a doctor to tell me that a BMI of 42 and a weight over 24 stone is unhealthy. \r\n\r\nAt the margin, yes; a professional\'s opinion is needed. But 42 is not marginal relative to a healthy range of 18-25.\r\n\r\n<i>Are you suggesting as well that our nanny state should take children away from those parents?<\/i>\r\n\r\nNo. There is a world of difference between taking away the natural children of people we think might not be good parents, and the decision to place a child with someone we think might not make a good parent. \r\n\r\nChildless couples do not like to have it pointed out to them (I know, I spent 4 sad years staring into that particular abyss), but it is still true that there are plenty of people who will not and should not be approved as adoptive parents but whose natural children should not be confiscated. \r\n\r\nIf anyone develops a crystal ball that can remove all element of doubt from these decisions, then the two thresholds could be brought together. Absent that magical device, we have to decide in which direction to err when there is reasonable doubt. That must be in favour of the child; which means either leaving it with its natural parents or waiting until a suitable adoptive parent becomes available.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> Yes, that’s my judgement. I don’t need an electrician to change a lightbulb for me; I don’t need a lawyer to tell me that theft is illegal; I don’t need a doctor to tell me that a BMI of 42 and a weight over 24 stone is unhealthy.

At the margin, yes; a professional’s opinion is needed. But 42 is not marginal relative to a healthy range of 18-25.

Are you suggesting as well that our nanny state should take children away from those parents?

No. There is a world of difference between taking away the natural children of people we think might not be good parents, and the decision to place a child with someone we think might not make a good parent.

Childless couples do not like to have it pointed out to them (I know, I spent 4 sad years staring into that particular abyss), but it is still true that there are plenty of people who will not and should not be approved as adoptive parents but whose natural children should not be confiscated.

If anyone develops a crystal ball that can remove all element of doubt from these decisions, then the two thresholds could be brought together. Absent that magical device, we have to decide in which direction to err when there is reasonable doubt. That must be in favour of the child; which means either leaving it with its natural parents or waiting until a suitable adoptive parent becomes available.

Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: alastair harris http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/01/12/obese-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-adopt-children/#comment-5928 alastair harris Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:17:40 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1852#comment-5928 patently, not healthy is your judgement. if you are a doctor and he is your patient then you would be qualified to hold that opinion, although not qualified to share it with us. You will I am sure find lots of parents in the world who are that sort of weight, or bigger. Are you suggesting as well that our nanny state should take children away from those parents?<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('5928','alastair harris'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('5928','alastair harris','patently, not healthy is your judgement. if you are a doctor and he is your patient then you would be qualified to hold that opinion, although not qualified to share it with us. \r\n\r\nYou will I am sure find lots of parents in the world who are that sort of weight, or bigger. Are you suggesting as well that our nanny state should take children away from those parents?'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> patently, not healthy is your judgement. if you are a doctor and he is your patient then you would be qualified to hold that opinion, although not qualified to share it with us.

You will I am sure find lots of parents in the world who are that sort of weight, or bigger. Are you suggesting as well that our nanny state should take children away from those parents?

Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: LFAT http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/01/12/obese-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-adopt-children/#comment-5925 LFAT Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:30:15 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1852#comment-5925 Well apparently he has such an 'active' lifestyle that I'm sure he'd balk at the thought of remaining indoors for so long in any case.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('5925','LFAT'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('5925','LFAT','Well apparently he has such an \'active\' lifestyle that I\'m sure he\'d balk at the thought of remaining indoors for so long in any case.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> Well apparently he has such an ‘active’ lifestyle that I’m sure he’d balk at the thought of remaining indoors for so long in any case.
Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: JuliaM http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/01/12/obese-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-adopt-children/#comment-5924 JuliaM Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:56:59 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1852#comment-5924 If he emigrates to America, he needn't think about sitting on a jury either: http://patterico.com/2009/01/12/striking-obese-people-from-a-jury/<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('5924','JuliaM'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('5924','JuliaM','If he emigrates to America, he needn\'t think about sitting on a jury either:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/patterico.com\/2009\/01\/12\/striking-obese-people-from-a-jury\/'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> If he emigrates to America, he needn’t think about sitting on a jury either:

http://patterico.com/2009/01/12/striking-obese-people-from-a-jury/

Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: patently http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/01/12/obese-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-adopt-children/#comment-5919 patently Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:17:20 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1852#comment-5919 This link worked for me: http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/justice-and-civil-liberties/too-fat-to-adopt-200901132750/ He looks pretty substantial to me, I have to say. There are indeed issues around the predictive ability of simple BMI measurements in the 25-35 range for tallish muscular men, but 42 and 24.5 stone is not healthy, sorry. But in any case, if he thinks he's healthy and the council is wrong, he is free to go and look for medical evidence to disprove them. If he can find it... Yes, we should fear the nanny state. But that does not mean we should opt for a free-for-all instead.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('5919','patently'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('5919','patently','This link worked for me:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.adamsmith.org\/blog\/justice-and-civil-liberties\/too-fat-to-adopt-200901132750\/\r\n\r\nHe looks pretty substantial to me, I have to say. There are indeed issues around the predictive ability of simple BMI measurements in the 25-35 range for tallish muscular men, but 42 and 24.5 stone is not healthy, sorry. \r\n\r\nBut in any case, if he thinks he\'s healthy and the council is wrong, he is free to go and look for medical evidence to disprove them. If he can find it...\r\n\r\nYes, we should fear the nanny state. But that does not mean we should opt for a free-for-all instead.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> This link worked for me:

http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/justice-and-civil-liberties/too-fat-to-adopt-200901132750/

He looks pretty substantial to me, I have to say. There are indeed issues around the predictive ability of simple BMI measurements in the 25-35 range for tallish muscular men, but 42 and 24.5 stone is not healthy, sorry.

But in any case, if he thinks he’s healthy and the council is wrong, he is free to go and look for medical evidence to disprove them. If he can find it…

Yes, we should fear the nanny state. But that does not mean we should opt for a free-for-all instead.

Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: alastair harris http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/01/12/obese-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-adopt-children/#comment-5917 alastair harris Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:02:50 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1852#comment-5917 there is a picture of the couple here. http://www.google.com/reader/view/#stream/feed%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Ffeeds.adamsmith.org%2FASIBlog I think your assessment of the chaps size is positively libelous.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('5917','alastair harris'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('5917','alastair harris','there is a picture of the couple here. http:\/\/www.google.com\/reader\/view\/#stream\/feed%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Ffeeds.adamsmith.org%2FASIBlog\r\n\r\nI think your assessment of the chaps size is positively libelous.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> there is a picture of the couple here. http://www.google.com/reader/view/#stream/feed%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Ffeeds.adamsmith.org%2FASIBlog

I think your assessment of the chaps size is positively libelous.

Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: patently http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/01/12/obese-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-adopt-children/#comment-5914 patently Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:59:09 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1852#comment-5914 <i>Here we have what seem to be two perfectly lovely human beings wanting to give an orphan a home! </i> But this isn't about him. It's about the child. And if the local authority homes are dreadful places, then the correct response is to improve them, not lower our standards for adoptive parents. <i>Nobody knows when they will finally die or what condition may strike in the future. </i> No, we don't. Any of us could die at any time. But we can be confident that, for some, it is a lot more likely than for others.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('5914','patently'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('5914','patently','<i>Here we have what seem to be two perfectly lovely human beings wanting to give an orphan a home! <\/i>\r\n\r\nBut this isn\'t about him. It\'s about the child.\r\n\r\nAnd if the local authority homes are dreadful places, then the correct response is to improve them, not lower our standards for adoptive parents. \r\n\r\n<i>Nobody knows when they will finally die or what condition may strike in the future. <\/i>\r\n\r\nNo, we don\'t. Any of us could die at any time. But we can be confident that, for some, it is a lot more likely than for others.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> Here we have what seem to be two perfectly lovely human beings wanting to give an orphan a home!

But this isn’t about him. It’s about the child.

And if the local authority homes are dreadful places, then the correct response is to improve them, not lower our standards for adoptive parents.

Nobody knows when they will finally die or what condition may strike in the future.

No, we don’t. Any of us could die at any time. But we can be confident that, for some, it is a lot more likely than for others.

Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: JuliaM http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2009/01/12/obese-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-adopt-children/#comment-5912 JuliaM Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:53:45 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1852#comment-5912 <i>"Yes, much better that he grows up roaming the streets, perhaps breaking the law and getting into trouble because he feels unloved and has had a raw deal in life!"</i> Indeed. After all, that <i>never</i> happens to kids with fat parents, only thin ones... If it was a choice between Mr Blob and a government-run childrens home, I'd reluctantly go for the former. But it isn't. There's no suggestion that this means a child languishing in the government's 'care' - there are other foster couples.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('5912','JuliaM'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('5912','JuliaM','<i>\"Yes, much better that he grows up roaming the streets, perhaps breaking the law and getting into trouble because he feels unloved and has had a raw deal in life!\"<\/i>\r\n\r\nIndeed. After all, that <i>never<\/i> happens to kids with fat parents, only thin ones...\r\n\r\nIf it was a choice between Mr Blob and a government-run childrens home, I\'d reluctantly go for the former. But it isn\'t. There\'s no suggestion that this means a child languishing in the government\'s \'care\' - there are other foster couples.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> “Yes, much better that he grows up roaming the streets, perhaps breaking the law and getting into trouble because he feels unloved and has had a raw deal in life!”

Indeed. After all, that never happens to kids with fat parents, only thin ones…

If it was a choice between Mr Blob and a government-run childrens home, I’d reluctantly go for the former. But it isn’t. There’s no suggestion that this means a child languishing in the government’s ‘care’ – there are other foster couples.

Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]>