Comments on: Presumed consent for donating organs is rightly rejected (for now, at least) http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/11/14/presumed-consent-for-donating-organs-is-rightly-rejected-for-now-at-least/ Daily views on British politics and the Conservative Party from a centre-right thinker who writes letters on his blog to politicians, journalists and many others. Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:23:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: LFAT http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/11/14/presumed-consent-for-donating-organs-is-rightly-rejected-for-now-at-least/#comment-4471 LFAT Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:02:18 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1452#comment-4471 Ross, I wasn't envisaging something like Albert Square on Eastenders with the kidneys and livers next to the grapefruit, if that helps. Shaun, I think the whole concept of an opt-out is dehumanising and doctors may well be caught up in this.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('4471','LFAT'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('4471','LFAT','Ross, I wasn\'t envisaging something like Albert Square on Eastenders with the kidneys and livers next to the grapefruit, if that helps.\n\nShaun, I think the whole concept of an opt-out is dehumanising and doctors may well be caught up in this.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> Ross, I wasn’t envisaging something like Albert Square on Eastenders with the kidneys and livers next to the grapefruit, if that helps.

Shaun, I think the whole concept of an opt-out is dehumanising and doctors may well be caught up in this.

Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: Shaun Pilkington http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/11/14/presumed-consent-for-donating-organs-is-rightly-rejected-for-now-at-least/#comment-4470 Shaun Pilkington Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:53:25 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1452#comment-4470 On safety grounds, I'd urge people to opt out as you never really want to be in the position of being seriously ill in hospital with your life in the hands of doctors who could go the extra mile and try and save you or they could let you die and give your organs to that sweet little kid down the corridor. This move encourages doctors to view critically ill patients as a resource to use and not a patient to treat.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('4470','Shaun Pilkington'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('4470','Shaun Pilkington','On safety grounds, I\'d urge people to opt out as you never really want to be in the position of being seriously ill in hospital with your life in the hands of doctors who could go the extra mile and try and save you or they could let you die and give your organs to that sweet little kid down the corridor. This move encourages doctors to view critically ill patients as a resource to use and not a patient to treat.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> On safety grounds, I’d urge people to opt out as you never really want to be in the position of being seriously ill in hospital with your life in the hands of doctors who could go the extra mile and try and save you or they could let you die and give your organs to that sweet little kid down the corridor. This move encourages doctors to view critically ill patients as a resource to use and not a patient to treat.
Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: Ross http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/11/14/presumed-consent-for-donating-organs-is-rightly-rejected-for-now-at-least/#comment-4469 Ross Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:09:25 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1452#comment-4469 <i>"Create a fully-regulated market for selling organs"</i> That would probably be the most effective method but I think the "ew" factor makes it hard to convince the public of.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('4469','Ross'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('4469','Ross','<i>\"Create a fully-regulated market for selling organs\"<\/i>\r\n\r\nThat would probably be the most effective method but I think the \"ew\" factor makes it hard to convince the public of.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> “Create a fully-regulated market for selling organs”

That would probably be the most effective method but I think the “ew” factor makes it hard to convince the public of.

Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: LFAT http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/11/14/presumed-consent-for-donating-organs-is-rightly-rejected-for-now-at-least/#comment-4468 LFAT Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:15:46 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1452#comment-4468 Indeed. A lot of willing donors might be so repulsed by this initiative that they would pull out as well, seeing as the kindness inherent in their volunteering to donate organs has been completely wiped out. And your death (and subsequent loss from this blog) would be tragic indeed.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('4468','LFAT'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('4468','LFAT','Indeed. A lot of willing donors might be so repulsed by this initiative that they would pull out as well, seeing as the kindness inherent in their volunteering to donate organs has been completely wiped out.\n\nAnd your death (and subsequent loss from this blog) would be tragic indeed.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> Indeed. A lot of willing donors might be so repulsed by this initiative that they would pull out as well, seeing as the kindness inherent in their volunteering to donate organs has been completely wiped out.

And your death (and subsequent loss from this blog) would be tragic indeed.

Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: patently http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/11/14/presumed-consent-for-donating-organs-is-rightly-rejected-for-now-at-least/#comment-4467 patently Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:51:31 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1452#comment-4467 The law of unintended consequences is a wonderful thing. You see, at the moment I carry a donor card and have told my family that should I die suddenly, I want anything of me that is left to be used to help someone else out so that at least some good can come out of the tragedy* of my death. I had already decided that, being the contrary little so-and-so that I am, if presumed consent was introduced then I would register my objection. As you say, the suggestion that is implicit in this policy is nothing short of sickening. Therefore, I reasoned, I would want nothing to do with such a system and would have to opt out. Last point; if a business did this, it would be classed as inertia marketing and Trading Standards would want to have a word with the management. -------------------------------------- *feel free to disagree with this choice of word<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('4467','patently'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('4467','patently','The law of unintended consequences is a wonderful thing. You see, at the moment I carry a donor card and have told my family that should I die suddenly, I want anything of me that is left to be used to help someone else out so that at least some good can come out of the tragedy* of my death.\r\n\r\nI had already decided that, being the contrary little so-and-so that I am, if presumed consent was introduced then I would register my objection. As you say, the suggestion that is implicit in this policy is nothing short of sickening. Therefore, I reasoned, I would want nothing to do with such a system and would have to opt out.\r\n\r\nLast point; if a business did this, it would be classed as inertia marketing and Trading Standards would want to have a word with the management. \r\n\r\n--------------------------------------\r\n*feel free to disagree with this choice of word'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> The law of unintended consequences is a wonderful thing. You see, at the moment I carry a donor card and have told my family that should I die suddenly, I want anything of me that is left to be used to help someone else out so that at least some good can come out of the tragedy* of my death.

I had already decided that, being the contrary little so-and-so that I am, if presumed consent was introduced then I would register my objection. As you say, the suggestion that is implicit in this policy is nothing short of sickening. Therefore, I reasoned, I would want nothing to do with such a system and would have to opt out.

Last point; if a business did this, it would be classed as inertia marketing and Trading Standards would want to have a word with the management.

————————————–
*feel free to disagree with this choice of word

Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: LFAT http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/11/14/presumed-consent-for-donating-organs-is-rightly-rejected-for-now-at-least/#comment-4466 LFAT Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:50:49 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1452#comment-4466 Gotcha, and a good point too.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('4466','LFAT'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('4466','LFAT','Gotcha, and a good point too.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> Gotcha, and a good point too.
Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: Shaun Pilkington http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/11/14/presumed-consent-for-donating-organs-is-rightly-rejected-for-now-at-least/#comment-4465 Shaun Pilkington Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:17:07 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1452#comment-4465 I think I've been unclear; its not that smoking is comprable to the principle of organ donation, its that this will be another 'reason' to legislate against smoking, even on your own in the privacy of your own home since regardless of passive smoking, you'd be harming 'your' heart, lungs and vascular system, all of which would 'belong' to the state...<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('4465','Shaun Pilkington'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('4465','Shaun Pilkington','I think I\'ve been unclear; its not that smoking is comprable to the principle of organ donation, its that this will be another \'reason\' to legislate against smoking, even on your own in the privacy of your own home since regardless of passive smoking, you\'d be harming \'your\' heart, lungs and vascular system, all of which would \'belong\' to the state...'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> I think I’ve been unclear; its not that smoking is comprable to the principle of organ donation, its that this will be another ‘reason’ to legislate against smoking, even on your own in the privacy of your own home since regardless of passive smoking, you’d be harming ‘your’ heart, lungs and vascular system, all of which would ‘belong’ to the state…
Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: LFAT http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/11/14/presumed-consent-for-donating-organs-is-rightly-rejected-for-now-at-least/#comment-4464 LFAT Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:39:47 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1452#comment-4464 Shaun, I don't think smoking is a good comparison to the principle of organ donation due to the externalities such as passive smoking. I was totally against the government trying to introduce smoking licenses because they have no right to legislate against certain behaviour, but public health is different (although I accept that the evidence for passive smoking might not be perfect). That said, I take your point about the totalitarian implications of all this, seeing as the state owning our bodies could lead to a raft of new measures being introduced on the grounds that we have to look after people who receive our organs as well!<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('4464','LFAT'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('4464','LFAT','Shaun, I don\'t think smoking is a good comparison to the principle of organ donation due to the externalities such as passive smoking. I was totally against the government trying to introduce smoking licenses because they have no right to legislate against certain behaviour, but public health is different (although I accept that the evidence for passive smoking might not be perfect).\n\nThat said, I take your point about the totalitarian implications of all this, seeing as the state owning our bodies could lead to a raft of new measures being introduced on the grounds that we have to look after people who receive our organs as well!'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> Shaun, I don’t think smoking is a good comparison to the principle of organ donation due to the externalities such as passive smoking. I was totally against the government trying to introduce smoking licenses because they have no right to legislate against certain behaviour, but public health is different (although I accept that the evidence for passive smoking might not be perfect).

That said, I take your point about the totalitarian implications of all this, seeing as the state owning our bodies could lead to a raft of new measures being introduced on the grounds that we have to look after people who receive our organs as well!

Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: Shaun Pilkington http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/11/14/presumed-consent-for-donating-organs-is-rightly-rejected-for-now-at-least/#comment-4462 Shaun Pilkington Fri, 14 Nov 2008 08:52:42 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1452#comment-4462 'Presumed consent', or the Nationalisation of Bodies, is the thin end of the wedge. Think about the implications if this had been passed. Smoking or drinking would no longer be a matter for you and your health as you would be damaging state property. Same with drugs, risky sex or anything else of that ilk. Thus would manifest a pretty totalitarian excuse for social control in the name of health; not just your health but the health of whoever will receive your organs upon your death. At least this scheme is halted for now; personally I'll be okay as I have an autoimmune disease so can't even give blood, let alone an organ. Lucky old me...<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('4462','Shaun Pilkington'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('4462','Shaun Pilkington','\'Presumed consent\', or the Nationalisation of Bodies, is the thin end of the wedge. Think about the implications if this had been passed. \r\n\r\nSmoking or drinking would no longer be a matter for you and your health as you would be damaging state property. Same with drugs, risky sex or anything else of that ilk. Thus would manifest a pretty totalitarian excuse for social control in the name of health; not just your health but the health of whoever will receive your organs upon your death. \r\n\r\nAt least this scheme is halted for now; personally I\'ll be okay as I have an autoimmune disease so can\'t even give blood, let alone an organ. Lucky old me...'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> ‘Presumed consent’, or the Nationalisation of Bodies, is the thin end of the wedge. Think about the implications if this had been passed.

Smoking or drinking would no longer be a matter for you and your health as you would be damaging state property. Same with drugs, risky sex or anything else of that ilk. Thus would manifest a pretty totalitarian excuse for social control in the name of health; not just your health but the health of whoever will receive your organs upon your death.

At least this scheme is halted for now; personally I’ll be okay as I have an autoimmune disease so can’t even give blood, let alone an organ. Lucky old me…

Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]> By: JuliaM http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/11/14/presumed-consent-for-donating-organs-is-rightly-rejected-for-now-at-least/#comment-4461 JuliaM Fri, 14 Nov 2008 08:52:10 +0000 http://www.lettersfromatory.com/?p=1452#comment-4461 Another 'you belong to the State' attitude. Not very edifying to see the mask slip so often, these days, is it?<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('4461','JuliaM'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('4461','JuliaM','Another \'you belong to the State\' attitude. Not very edifying to see the mask slip so often, these days, is it?'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> Another ‘you belong to the State’ attitude. Not very edifying to see the mask slip so often, these days, is it?
Reply to this comment – Quote this comment
]]>