Comments on: My god, an environmental policy that I can support http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/07/29/my-god-an-environmental-policy-that-i-can-support/ Daily views on British politics and the Conservative Party from a centre-right thinker who writes letters on his blog to politicians, journalists and many others. Wed, 09 Jun 2010 14:37:35 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Richard B http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/07/29/my-god-an-environmental-policy-that-i-can-support/#comment-3062 Richard B Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:23:07 +0000 http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=883#comment-3062 Don't forget the Law of Unintended Consequences. In one area where there was a voluntary ban on plastic bags, sales of bin liners went up 400%. Very few people use the supermarket bags once only - in my house, they are usually used to wrap waste hygienically, or put into the plastic recycle bin. These bags are incredible useful, and as someone pointed out above, banning them is eco-gesture politics only. It is done to make some people feel better, while removing from the rest of us a useful resource. Don’t forget the Law of Unintended Consequences. In one area where there was a voluntary ban on plastic bags, sales of bin liners went up 400%. Very few people use the supermarket bags once only – in my house, they are usually used to wrap waste hygienically, or put into the plastic recycle bin. These bags are incredible useful, and as someone pointed out above, banning them is eco-gesture politics only. It is done to make some people feel better, while removing from the rest of us a useful resource.

]]> By: mark http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/07/29/my-god-an-environmental-policy-that-i-can-support/#comment-3061 mark Mon, 04 Aug 2008 02:17:43 +0000 http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=883#comment-3061 Brown paper bags are fine- as long as you have a car in the parking lot. Totally useless if you take the train. But as part of gesture politics, totally understandable, and I guess that's what this debate is all about, signalling how virtuous we are. Brown paper bags are fine- as long as you have a car in the parking lot. Totally useless if you take the train. But as part of gesture politics, totally understandable, and I guess that’s what this debate is all about, signalling how virtuous we are.

]]> By: Candid http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/07/29/my-god-an-environmental-policy-that-i-can-support/#comment-3060 Candid Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:17:35 +0000 http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=883#comment-3060 I agree with Asquith. As the motto goes - Reduce, Re-use, Recycle and it should be in that order of priority. I hate to say it but even the gas guzzling Americans are ahead of us in this game. At least their shops give out brown paper bags (hopefully from sustainable sources!) which lead to many a rom com heroine spilling oranges around the parking lot and being assisted by a very toned and very attractive man. In fact I vote for brown paper bags - that would destroy the dating industry! Apologies I have digressed somewhat... err... main point - I agree with Asquith Mutley - you can buy some lovely enviro friendly bio degradable bags for your bio degradable poop. Not quite for the same purpose but one must be adaptable in times of change! http://www.ethicalsuperstore.com/products/straight/compost-a-bag-bin-liners/ I agree with Asquith. As the motto goes – Reduce, Re-use, Recycle and it should be in that order of priority. I hate to say it but even the gas guzzling Americans are ahead of us in this game. At least their shops give out brown paper bags (hopefully from sustainable sources!) which lead to many a rom com heroine spilling oranges around the parking lot and being assisted by a very toned and very attractive man. In fact I vote for brown paper bags – that would destroy the dating industry! Apologies I have digressed somewhat…

err… main point – I agree with Asquith

Mutley – you can buy some lovely enviro friendly bio degradable bags for your bio degradable poop.

Not quite for the same purpose but one must be adaptable in times of change!

http://www.ethicalsuperstore.com/products/straight/compost-a-bag-bin-liners/

]]> By: mutley http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/07/29/my-god-an-environmental-policy-that-i-can-support/#comment-3059 mutley Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:08:34 +0000 http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=883#comment-3059 I have a question. If there are no free plastic bags what shall I scoop dog poop with? I have a question. If there are no free plastic bags what shall I scoop dog poop with?

]]> By: asquith http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/07/29/my-god-an-environmental-policy-that-i-can-support/#comment-3058 asquith Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:17:25 +0000 http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=883#comment-3058 "Real recycling is not about encouraging less, but reusing that which there is." Not a view that I share. This is the worldview that has got celebs planting trees to make up for their carbon emissions, when if they wanted to do something they should have just not made the emissions in the first place. (Not to mention the fact that many newly planted forests are wildly inappropriate for their environment, and it takes decades for them to even approach the worth of ancient woodland*) Recycling quite obviously consumes more resources than not using excessive packaging etc. at all. *Woodland Trust member speaking :) “Real recycling is not about encouraging less, but reusing that which there is.”

Not a view that I share.

This is the worldview that has got celebs planting trees to make up for their carbon emissions, when if they wanted to do something they should have just not made the emissions in the first place. (Not to mention the fact that many newly planted forests are wildly inappropriate for their environment, and it takes decades for them to even approach the worth of ancient woodland*)

Recycling quite obviously consumes more resources than not using excessive packaging etc. at all.

*Woodland Trust member speaking :)

]]> By: Bill Quango MP http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/07/29/my-god-an-environmental-policy-that-i-can-support/#comment-3057 Bill Quango MP Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:56:47 +0000 http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=883#comment-3057 I don't understand the debate at all. If you go to M+S and buy a pair of pants you wouldn't be expected to take your own bag and you won't be charged for one. But if you buy food, the most over packaged goods on the high street you would? LFaT. Just imagine if you would a single bag of groceries. Lets take the staples. Bread [in a plastic bag] Eggs [cardboard box] Cheese [in a plastic bag] Butter [Plastic box] Vegtables x 3 kinds [in a plastic bag] Yoghurt [Plastic box] Cereal [cardboard box] Fruit [in a plastic bag] The one USEFUL item, a container to put your containers into, is the one you are expected to supply yourself. If you go to a shopping centre will you take plastic bags for all your purchases ? If you go to NEXT will you have a bag for your shoes and shirts. Or Smith's and take a bag for your books? OK, its possible, but what's the point? What is the saving when everything comes in packaging anyway. Its inconvenience, dressed up as planet saving, conscious cleansing, guilt salving ECO-nomics. The packaging is the problem, not the bag. Can't agree with you on this one Mr letters. Real recycling is not about encouraging less, but reusing that which there is. I don’t understand the debate at all.
If you go to M+S and buy a pair of pants you wouldn’t be expected to take your own bag and you won’t be charged for one.
But if you buy food, the most over packaged goods on the high street you would?

LFaT. Just imagine if you would a single bag of groceries. Lets take the staples.

Bread [in a plastic bag]
Eggs [cardboard box]
Cheese [in a plastic bag]
Butter [Plastic box]
Vegtables x 3 kinds [in a plastic bag]
Yoghurt [Plastic box]
Cereal [cardboard box]
Fruit [in a plastic bag]

The one USEFUL item, a container to put your containers into, is the one you are expected to supply yourself.

If you go to a shopping centre will you take plastic bags for all your purchases ?
If you go to NEXT will you have a bag for your shoes and shirts. Or Smith’s and take a bag for your books?

OK, its possible, but what’s the point?
What is the saving when everything comes in packaging anyway. Its inconvenience, dressed up as planet saving, conscious cleansing, guilt salving ECO-nomics.
The packaging is the problem, not the bag.
Can’t agree with you on this one Mr letters.

Real recycling is not about encouraging less, but reusing that which there is.

]]> By: JuliaM http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/07/29/my-god-an-environmental-policy-that-i-can-support/#comment-3056 JuliaM Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:20:14 +0000 http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=883#comment-3056 <i>"Obviously your employer is not concerned about reducing their energy bills or encouraging employees to recycle, which is just as bad."</i> Well, to be fair, some companies run overnight updates to PCs via networks - it may be that the machines need to be left on for those? As far as the recycling goes, why <i>should</i> the employer care? It isn't (presumably) a business benefit to them to recycle. Make it one, and you might see a change, as Blue Eyes says, especially if the benefit is passed on to the employees. Carrot is <i>always</i> better than stick, because too much stick breeds the 'F*** you' attitude that so many people now have towards the latest 'green' fad. “Obviously your employer is not concerned about reducing their energy bills or encouraging employees to recycle, which is just as bad.”

Well, to be fair, some companies run overnight updates to PCs via networks – it may be that the machines need to be left on for those?

As far as the recycling goes, why should the employer care? It isn’t (presumably) a business benefit to them to recycle. Make it one, and you might see a change, as Blue Eyes says, especially if the benefit is passed on to the employees.

Carrot is always better than stick, because too much stick breeds the ‘F*** you’ attitude that so many people now have towards the latest ‘green’ fad.

]]> By: Letters From A Tory http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/07/29/my-god-an-environmental-policy-that-i-can-support/#comment-3055 Letters From A Tory Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:09:08 +0000 http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=883#comment-3055 Candid, I think your colleagues' attitude towards energy consumption and recycling is pathetic. Obviously your employer is not concerned about reducing their energy bills or encouraging employees to recycle, which is just as bad. Candid, I think your colleagues’ attitude towards energy consumption and recycling is pathetic. Obviously your employer is not concerned about reducing their energy bills or encouraging employees to recycle, which is just as bad.

]]> By: Candid http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/07/29/my-god-an-environmental-policy-that-i-can-support/#comment-3054 Candid Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:02:07 +0000 http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=883#comment-3054 JuliaM - for once I find myself agreeing with you! My colleagues probably do it to spite me - although I am the tea monkey so you'd think they'd have some respect!! JuliaM – for once I find myself agreeing with you! My colleagues probably do it to spite me – although I am the tea monkey so you’d think they’d have some respect!!

]]> By: JuliaM http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/07/29/my-god-an-environmental-policy-that-i-can-support/#comment-3053 JuliaM Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:50:00 +0000 http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=883#comment-3053 Blue Eyes: <i>"You will find that forcing anyone to do anything will just cause resentment and will probably be counter-productive.."</i> Candid:<i>"...the majority are incredibly lazy. Otherwise I wouldn’t have to walk around the office before I leave and take paper, bottle and cans out of normally bins (next to people’s feet) and drop them into one of the recycling bins - at least four steps away! And I wouldn’t have to turn off computers (as mentioned earlier)."</i> Hmm, I think if I worked with Candid, I'd make sure <i>not</i> to recycle... ;) Blue Eyes: “You will find that forcing anyone to do anything will just cause resentment and will probably be counter-productive..”

Candid:“…the majority are incredibly lazy. Otherwise I wouldn’t have to walk around the office before I leave and take paper, bottle and cans out of normally bins (next to people’s feet) and drop them into one of the recycling bins – at least four steps away! And I wouldn’t have to turn off computers (as mentioned earlier).”

Hmm, I think if I worked with Candid, I’d make sure not to recycle… ;)

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