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	<title>Comments on: Harman sticks her nose into other people&#8217;s business</title>
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	<description>Daily views on British politics and the Conservative Party from a centre-right thinker who writes letters on his blog to politicians, journalists and many others.</description>
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		<title>By: asquith</title>
		<link>http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/06/26/harman-sticks-her-nose-into-other-peoples-business/#comment-2617</link>
		<dc:creator>asquith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=754#comment-2617</guid>
		<description>Stu, what I&#039;m saying stems from my conviction that the &quot;child poverty&quot; &quot;debate&quot; is dishonest. I know that many children are financially, socially &amp; in all kinds of other ways deprived. I myself come from a family whose income is well below average, &amp; grew up on a sink estate where many were far worse off than us.

But in the end, it is adults who are poor, not children. They are let down by poor education, lack of opportunity, &amp; barriers to taking up what opportunities there are, such as the low expectations all too common in this country.

Redistributing money towards people in low-paid jobs, (if they have children but not if they don&#039;t), is not going to solve anything. What we should be doing is equipping people so that their labour will command a high wage in the market. We need this for our future as a nation in a global economy.

The potential for prosperity exists, but it will never be achieved through the methods being used.

The age discrimination that I refer to is that certain benefits, in and out of work, are arbitrarily paid to people over 25 but not those who are younger... no reference to their circumstances, only their age.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;2617&#039;,&#039;asquith&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt;   -  &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;2617&#039;,&#039;asquith&#039;,&#039;Stu, what I\&#039;m saying stems from my conviction that the \&quot;child poverty\&quot; \&quot;debate\&quot; is dishonest. I know that many children are financially, socially &amp; in all kinds of other ways deprived. I myself come from a family whose income is well below average, &amp; grew up on a sink estate where many were far worse off than us.\n\nBut in the end, it is adults who are poor, not children. They are let down by poor education, lack of opportunity, &amp; barriers to taking up what opportunities there are, such as the low expectations all too common in this country.\n\nRedistributing money towards people in low-paid jobs, (if they have children but not if they don\&#039;t), is not going to solve anything. What we should be doing is equipping people so that their labour will command a high wage in the market. We need this for our future as a nation in a global economy.\n\nThe potential for prosperity exists, but it will never be achieved through the methods being used.\n\nThe age discrimination that I refer to is that certain benefits, in and out of work, are arbitrarily paid to people over 25 but not those who are younger... no reference to their circumstances, only their age.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stu, what I&#8217;m saying stems from my conviction that the &#8220;child poverty&#8221; &#8220;debate&#8221; is dishonest. I know that many children are financially, socially &amp; in all kinds of other ways deprived. I myself come from a family whose income is well below average, &amp; grew up on a sink estate where many were far worse off than us.</p>
<p>But in the end, it is adults who are poor, not children. They are let down by poor education, lack of opportunity, &amp; barriers to taking up what opportunities there are, such as the low expectations all too common in this country.</p>
<p>Redistributing money towards people in low-paid jobs, (if they have children but not if they don&#8217;t), is not going to solve anything. What we should be doing is equipping people so that their labour will command a high wage in the market. We need this for our future as a nation in a global economy.</p>
<p>The potential for prosperity exists, but it will never be achieved through the methods being used.</p>
<p>The age discrimination that I refer to is that certain benefits, in and out of work, are arbitrarily paid to people over 25 but not those who are younger&#8230; no reference to their circumstances, only their age.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2617','asquith'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a>   &#8211;  <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2617','asquith','Stu, what I\'m saying stems from my conviction that the \&quot;child poverty\&quot; \&quot;debate\&quot; is dishonest. I know that many children are financially, socially &amp;amp; in all kinds of other ways deprived. I myself come from a family whose income is well below average, &amp;amp; grew up on a sink estate where many were far worse off than us.\n\nBut in the end, it is adults who are poor, not children. They are let down by poor education, lack of opportunity, &amp;amp; barriers to taking up what opportunities there are, such as the low expectations all too common in this country.\n\nRedistributing money towards people in low-paid jobs, (if they have children but not if they don\'t), is not going to solve anything. What we should be doing is equipping people so that their labour will command a high wage in the market. We need this for our future as a nation in a global economy.\n\nThe potential for prosperity exists, but it will never be achieved through the methods being used.\n\nThe age discrimination that I refer to is that certain benefits, in and out of work, are arbitrarily paid to people over 25 but not those who are younger... no reference to their circumstances, only their age.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: Stu</title>
		<link>http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/06/26/harman-sticks-her-nose-into-other-peoples-business/#comment-2616</link>
		<dc:creator>Stu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=754#comment-2616</guid>
		<description>asquith, I think you&#039;re wrong about children. In pretty much every way. That&#039;s about all I can say on that.

As for age discrimination, though... It&#039;s impossible, in a practical sense, &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; to discriminate based on age in many circumstances. Are we saying that you shouldn&#039;t ask for previous experience when hiring for a skilled job, for fear that you are discriminating against young people? Is it age discrimination that I can no longer get on a bus because it&#039;s full of old people travelling for free? Is it ageist that OAPs get cheaper cinema tickets? Can Wimbledon really hold a &#039;senior&#039; tournament along with the main one, and exlude younger players from playing in it?&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;2616&#039;,&#039;Stu&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt;   -  &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;2616&#039;,&#039;Stu&#039;,&#039;asquith, I think you\&#039;re wrong about children. In pretty much every way. That\&#039;s about all I can say on that.\n\nAs for age discrimination, though... It\&#039;s impossible, in a practical sense, &lt;i&gt;not&lt;\/i&gt; to discriminate based on age in many circumstances. Are we saying that you shouldn\&#039;t ask for previous experience when hiring for a skilled job, for fear that you are discriminating against young people? Is it age discrimination that I can no longer get on a bus because it\&#039;s full of old people travelling for free? Is it ageist that OAPs get cheaper cinema tickets? Can Wimbledon really hold a \&#039;senior\&#039; tournament along with the main one, and exlude younger players from playing in it?&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>asquith, I think you&#8217;re wrong about children. In pretty much every way. That&#8217;s about all I can say on that.</p>
<p>As for age discrimination, though&#8230; It&#8217;s impossible, in a practical sense, <i>not</i> to discriminate based on age in many circumstances. Are we saying that you shouldn&#8217;t ask for previous experience when hiring for a skilled job, for fear that you are discriminating against young people? Is it age discrimination that I can no longer get on a bus because it&#8217;s full of old people travelling for free? Is it ageist that OAPs get cheaper cinema tickets? Can Wimbledon really hold a &#8217;senior&#8217; tournament along with the main one, and exlude younger players from playing in it?
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2616','Stu'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a>   &#8211;  <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2616','Stu','asquith, I think you\'re wrong about children. In pretty much every way. That\'s about all I can say on that.\n\nAs for age discrimination, though... It\'s impossible, in a practical sense, &lt;i&gt;not&lt;\/i&gt; to discriminate based on age in many circumstances. Are we saying that you shouldn\'t ask for previous experience when hiring for a skilled job, for fear that you are discriminating against young people? Is it age discrimination that I can no longer get on a bus because it\'s full of old people travelling for free? Is it ageist that OAPs get cheaper cinema tickets? Can Wimbledon really hold a \'senior\' tournament along with the main one, and exlude younger players from playing in it?'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: asquith</title>
		<link>http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/06/26/harman-sticks-her-nose-into-other-peoples-business/#comment-2615</link>
		<dc:creator>asquith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=754#comment-2615</guid>
		<description>Excellent post, Shiney. I have made no secret of my opposition to &quot;positive&quot; discrimination, considering it to be bilge.

There is a problem of underachievement among ethnic minorities, women... and poor whites. But that will only be solved by extending opportunities so that they can become qualified, &amp; then will be able to compete on equal terms in the market.

I find it offensive to assume that people who belong to X group will never be as well qualified as the already priviliged, so we should make allowances for it. It&#039;s as if we accept inequality of oppurtunity &amp; try to deal with it, rather than challenging it.

This government is in love with putting sticking plasters over everything.

For example, they pay subsidies to people in low paid jobs (especially if they have f**k trophies) as a way of saying &quot;You can never better yourself, so we&#039;ll give you handouts while you remain poor &amp; powerless in a dead-end job&quot;.

Whereas in fact, they can better themselves... or could, if there weren&#039;t so many barriers in their way.

You could say that I support achieving socialist ends (or, at least, what the socialists claim to support) through liberal means :)&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;2615&#039;,&#039;asquith&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt;   -  &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;2615&#039;,&#039;asquith&#039;,&#039;Excellent post, Shiney. I have made no secret of my opposition to \&quot;positive\&quot; discrimination, considering it to be bilge.\n\nThere is a problem of underachievement among ethnic minorities, women... and poor whites. But that will only be solved by extending opportunities so that they can become qualified, &amp; then will be able to compete on equal terms in the market.\n\nI find it offensive to assume that people who belong to X group will never be as well qualified as the already priviliged, so we should make allowances for it. It\&#039;s as if we accept inequality of oppurtunity &amp; try to deal with it, rather than challenging it.\n\nThis government is in love with putting sticking plasters over everything.\n\nFor example, they pay subsidies to people in low paid jobs (especially if they have f**k trophies) as a way of saying \&quot;You can never better yourself, so we\&#039;ll give you handouts while you remain poor &amp; powerless in a dead-end job\&quot;.\n\nWhereas in fact, they can better themselves... or could, if there weren\&#039;t so many barriers in their way.\n\nYou could say that I support achieving socialist ends (or, at least, what the socialists claim to support) through liberal means :)&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post, Shiney. I have made no secret of my opposition to &#8220;positive&#8221; discrimination, considering it to be bilge.</p>
<p>There is a problem of underachievement among ethnic minorities, women&#8230; and poor whites. But that will only be solved by extending opportunities so that they can become qualified, &amp; then will be able to compete on equal terms in the market.</p>
<p>I find it offensive to assume that people who belong to X group will never be as well qualified as the already priviliged, so we should make allowances for it. It&#8217;s as if we accept inequality of oppurtunity &amp; try to deal with it, rather than challenging it.</p>
<p>This government is in love with putting sticking plasters over everything.</p>
<p>For example, they pay subsidies to people in low paid jobs (especially if they have f**k trophies) as a way of saying &#8220;You can never better yourself, so we&#8217;ll give you handouts while you remain poor &amp; powerless in a dead-end job&#8221;.</p>
<p>Whereas in fact, they can better themselves&#8230; or could, if there weren&#8217;t so many barriers in their way.</p>
<p>You could say that I support achieving socialist ends (or, at least, what the socialists claim to support) through liberal means <img src='http://www.lettersfromatory.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2615','asquith'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a>   &#8211;  <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2615','asquith','Excellent post, Shiney. I have made no secret of my opposition to \&quot;positive\&quot; discrimination, considering it to be bilge.\n\nThere is a problem of underachievement among ethnic minorities, women... and poor whites. But that will only be solved by extending opportunities so that they can become qualified, &amp;amp; then will be able to compete on equal terms in the market.\n\nI find it offensive to assume that people who belong to X group will never be as well qualified as the already priviliged, so we should make allowances for it. It\'s as if we accept inequality of oppurtunity &amp;amp; try to deal with it, rather than challenging it.\n\nThis government is in love with putting sticking plasters over everything.\n\nFor example, they pay subsidies to people in low paid jobs (especially if they have f**k trophies) as a way of saying \&quot;You can never better yourself, so we\'ll give you handouts while you remain poor &amp;amp; powerless in a dead-end job\&quot;.\n\nWhereas in fact, they can better themselves... or could, if there weren\'t so many barriers in their way.\n\nYou could say that I support achieving socialist ends (or, at least, what the socialists claim to support) through liberal means :)'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: Shiney</title>
		<link>http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/06/26/harman-sticks-her-nose-into-other-peoples-business/#comment-2614</link>
		<dc:creator>Shiney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=754#comment-2614</guid>
		<description>I run a small manufacturing company - a dying breed in the UK,  in no small part due to ludicrous government policies such as this.

We have more women than men in senior positions and they are there on merit, and paid accordingly. In addition, we have roughly equal numbers of men and women on the shop floor and a large age range.  Our workforce is ethnically diverse (in the context of the area in which we are located).

All our people are paid based purely on their skill levels and the job they do irrespective of age, gender or any other factor. We offer training opportunities to all those who want to progress. It would be economic suicide for us to do otherwise.

I find this sort of legislation insulting  as it assumes that male WASPs like me in senior positions don&#039;t make rational economic decisions - it is typical madcap socialism.

Economic necessity will drive equality - especially where there is a profit motive!

Shiney

PS -  Oh wait, I&#039;ve just realised what I&#039;ve said. Perhaps those in the public sector don&#039;t make rational economic decisions because there IS no profit motive and need legislation to force them to make the right choices.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;2614&#039;,&#039;Shiney&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt;   -  &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;2614&#039;,&#039;Shiney&#039;,&#039;I run a small manufacturing company - a dying breed in the UK,  in no small part due to ludicrous government policies such as this.\n\nWe have more women than men in senior positions and they are there on merit, and paid accordingly. In addition, we have roughly equal numbers of men and women on the shop floor and a large age range.  Our workforce is ethnically diverse (in the context of the area in which we are located).\n\nAll our people are paid based purely on their skill levels and the job they do irrespective of age, gender or any other factor. We offer training opportunities to all those who want to progress. It would be economic suicide for us to do otherwise.\n\nI find this sort of legislation insulting  as it assumes that male WASPs like me in senior positions don\&#039;t make rational economic decisions - it is typical madcap socialism.\n\nEconomic necessity will drive equality - especially where there is a profit motive!\n\nShiney\n\nPS -  Oh wait, I\&#039;ve just realised what I\&#039;ve said. Perhaps those in the public sector don\&#039;t make rational economic decisions because there IS no profit motive and need legislation to force them to make the right choices.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I run a small manufacturing company &#8211; a dying breed in the UK,  in no small part due to ludicrous government policies such as this.</p>
<p>We have more women than men in senior positions and they are there on merit, and paid accordingly. In addition, we have roughly equal numbers of men and women on the shop floor and a large age range.  Our workforce is ethnically diverse (in the context of the area in which we are located).</p>
<p>All our people are paid based purely on their skill levels and the job they do irrespective of age, gender or any other factor. We offer training opportunities to all those who want to progress. It would be economic suicide for us to do otherwise.</p>
<p>I find this sort of legislation insulting  as it assumes that male WASPs like me in senior positions don&#8217;t make rational economic decisions &#8211; it is typical madcap socialism.</p>
<p>Economic necessity will drive equality &#8211; especially where there is a profit motive!</p>
<p>Shiney</p>
<p>PS &#8211;  Oh wait, I&#8217;ve just realised what I&#8217;ve said. Perhaps those in the public sector don&#8217;t make rational economic decisions because there IS no profit motive and need legislation to force them to make the right choices.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2614','Shiney'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a>   &#8211;  <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2614','Shiney','I run a small manufacturing company - a dying breed in the UK,  in no small part due to ludicrous government policies such as this.\n\nWe have more women than men in senior positions and they are there on merit, and paid accordingly. In addition, we have roughly equal numbers of men and women on the shop floor and a large age range.  Our workforce is ethnically diverse (in the context of the area in which we are located).\n\nAll our people are paid based purely on their skill levels and the job they do irrespective of age, gender or any other factor. We offer training opportunities to all those who want to progress. It would be economic suicide for us to do otherwise.\n\nI find this sort of legislation insulting  as it assumes that male WASPs like me in senior positions don\'t make rational economic decisions - it is typical madcap socialism.\n\nEconomic necessity will drive equality - especially where there is a profit motive!\n\nShiney\n\nPS -  Oh wait, I\'ve just realised what I\'ve said. Perhaps those in the public sector don\'t make rational economic decisions because there IS no profit motive and need legislation to force them to make the right choices.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: asquith</title>
		<link>http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/06/26/harman-sticks-her-nose-into-other-peoples-business/#comment-2613</link>
		<dc:creator>asquith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=754#comment-2613</guid>
		<description>Yes! That&#039;s what it is, arbitrary. There&#039;s no reason on earth why people are more deserving, by virtue of having hit their 25th birthday. I can understand subsidising families with children, but it&#039;s bad because it encourages people to have children to provide for (with the evil mentality that encourages), &amp; also because it&#039;s just sticking plaster covering the reality of low-paid jobs, poor education, unemployment &amp; the litany of utter shyte we all know about.

You may have noticed that this is my hobby horse. Pity my workmates, as they have to listen to this relentlessly... but then, they all agree, &amp; I&#039;ve yet to meet someone who doesn&#039;t. You included ;)&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;2613&#039;,&#039;asquith&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt;   -  &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;2613&#039;,&#039;asquith&#039;,&#039;Yes! That\&#039;s what it is, arbitrary. There\&#039;s no reason on earth why people are more deserving, by virtue of having hit their 25th birthday. I can understand subsidising families with children, but it\&#039;s bad because it encourages people to have children to provide for (with the evil mentality that encourages), &amp; also because it\&#039;s just sticking plaster covering the reality of low-paid jobs, poor education, unemployment &amp; the litany of utter shyte we all know about.\n\nYou may have noticed that this is my hobby horse. Pity my workmates, as they have to listen to this relentlessly... but then, they all agree, &amp; I\&#039;ve yet to meet someone who doesn\&#039;t. You included ;)&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes! That&#8217;s what it is, arbitrary. There&#8217;s no reason on earth why people are more deserving, by virtue of having hit their 25th birthday. I can understand subsidising families with children, but it&#8217;s bad because it encourages people to have children to provide for (with the evil mentality that encourages), &amp; also because it&#8217;s just sticking plaster covering the reality of low-paid jobs, poor education, unemployment &amp; the litany of utter shyte we all know about.</p>
<p>You may have noticed that this is my hobby horse. Pity my workmates, as they have to listen to this relentlessly&#8230; but then, they all agree, &amp; I&#8217;ve yet to meet someone who doesn&#8217;t. You included <img src='http://www.lettersfromatory.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2613','asquith'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a>   &#8211;  <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2613','asquith','Yes! That\'s what it is, arbitrary. There\'s no reason on earth why people are more deserving, by virtue of having hit their 25th birthday. I can understand subsidising families with children, but it\'s bad because it encourages people to have children to provide for (with the evil mentality that encourages), &amp;amp; also because it\'s just sticking plaster covering the reality of low-paid jobs, poor education, unemployment &amp;amp; the litany of utter shyte we all know about.\n\nYou may have noticed that this is my hobby horse. Pity my workmates, as they have to listen to this relentlessly... but then, they all agree, &amp;amp; I\'ve yet to meet someone who doesn\'t. You included ;)'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: Blue Eyes</title>
		<link>http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/06/26/harman-sticks-her-nose-into-other-peoples-business/#comment-2612</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue Eyes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=754#comment-2612</guid>
		<description>I think the Labour party has just lost it, totally. I can think of several  examples of where this legislation would cause exactly the opposite of what it is trying to. They are just bonkers and trying to get as much fantasy socialism through before they have to sit on the other side of the House for another twenty years.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;2612&#039;,&#039;Blue Eyes&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt;   -  &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;2612&#039;,&#039;Blue Eyes&#039;,&#039;I think the Labour party has just lost it, totally. I can think of several  examples of where this legislation would cause exactly the opposite of what it is trying to. They are just bonkers and trying to get as much fantasy socialism through before they have to sit on the other side of the House for another twenty years.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the Labour party has just lost it, totally. I can think of several  examples of where this legislation would cause exactly the opposite of what it is trying to. They are just bonkers and trying to get as much fantasy socialism through before they have to sit on the other side of the House for another twenty years.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2612','Blue Eyes'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a>   &#8211;  <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2612','Blue Eyes','I think the Labour party has just lost it, totally. I can think of several  examples of where this legislation would cause exactly the opposite of what it is trying to. They are just bonkers and trying to get as much fantasy socialism through before they have to sit on the other side of the House for another twenty years.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: Letters From A Tory</title>
		<link>http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/06/26/harman-sticks-her-nose-into-other-peoples-business/#comment-2611</link>
		<dc:creator>Letters From A Tory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=754#comment-2611</guid>
		<description>DG, absolutely right.  The BNP will make a big deal out of Labour openly and knowingly discriminating against white men.  For the government of this country to put in place measures whereby women and ethnic minorities are prioritised above white men is absolutely awful.  Naturally, the Conservatives and Lib Dems daren&#039;t speak up about this.

Age discrimination is everywhere we look, but the government seem to be saying that some forms of age discrimination are ok whereas others are not on the basis of an entirely abitrary boundary that seems to suit those in charge both financially and electorally.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;2611&#039;,&#039;Letters From A Tory&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt;   -  &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;2611&#039;,&#039;Letters From A Tory&#039;,&#039;DG, absolutely right.  The BNP will make a big deal out of Labour openly and knowingly discriminating against white men.  For the government of this country to put in place measures whereby women and ethnic minorities are prioritised above white men is absolutely awful.  Naturally, the Conservatives and Lib Dems daren\&#039;t speak up about this.\n\nAge discrimination is everywhere we look, but the government seem to be saying that some forms of age discrimination are ok whereas others are not on the basis of an entirely abitrary boundary that seems to suit those in charge both financially and electorally.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DG, absolutely right.  The BNP will make a big deal out of Labour openly and knowingly discriminating against white men.  For the government of this country to put in place measures whereby women and ethnic minorities are prioritised above white men is absolutely awful.  Naturally, the Conservatives and Lib Dems daren&#8217;t speak up about this.</p>
<p>Age discrimination is everywhere we look, but the government seem to be saying that some forms of age discrimination are ok whereas others are not on the basis of an entirely abitrary boundary that seems to suit those in charge both financially and electorally.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2611','Letters From A Tory'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a>   &#8211;  <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2611','Letters From A Tory','DG, absolutely right.  The BNP will make a big deal out of Labour openly and knowingly discriminating against white men.  For the government of this country to put in place measures whereby women and ethnic minorities are prioritised above white men is absolutely awful.  Naturally, the Conservatives and Lib Dems daren\'t speak up about this.\n\nAge discrimination is everywhere we look, but the government seem to be saying that some forms of age discrimination are ok whereas others are not on the basis of an entirely abitrary boundary that seems to suit those in charge both financially and electorally.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: asquith</title>
		<link>http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/06/26/harman-sticks-her-nose-into-other-peoples-business/#comment-2610</link>
		<dc:creator>asquith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=754#comment-2610</guid>
		<description>They also punish single, childless adults. But surely if people can&#039;t provide for the children, they shouldn&#039;t sodding well have them. What message does it send to a youngster whose parents depend on the state, who grows up in a deprived area getting the worst of everything?&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;2610&#039;,&#039;asquith&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt;   -  &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;2610&#039;,&#039;asquith&#039;,&#039;They also punish single, childless adults. But surely if people can\&#039;t provide for the children, they shouldn\&#039;t sodding well have them. What message does it send to a youngster whose parents depend on the state, who grows up in a deprived area getting the worst of everything?&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They also punish single, childless adults. But surely if people can&#8217;t provide for the children, they shouldn&#8217;t sodding well have them. What message does it send to a youngster whose parents depend on the state, who grows up in a deprived area getting the worst of everything?
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2610','asquith'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a>   &#8211;  <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2610','asquith','They also punish single, childless adults. But surely if people can\'t provide for the children, they shouldn\'t sodding well have them. What message does it send to a youngster whose parents depend on the state, who grows up in a deprived area getting the worst of everything?'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: asquith</title>
		<link>http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/06/26/harman-sticks-her-nose-into-other-peoples-business/#comment-2609</link>
		<dc:creator>asquith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=754#comment-2609</guid>
		<description>There is also quite widespread age discrimination: I&#039;ve explained why I regard the &quot;working tax credits&quot; as utter bilge. Now I&#039;ve found out that someone, working full-time for the minimum wage, gets in excess of £40 if he is over 25, nothing whatsoever if he is younger.

Regardless of family situation, tenure or anything else. Who the hell dreams this up?

They charge £40 a week in tax &amp; give £ 43 in tax credits. Better not to bother taking the tax at all, thus saving admin costs.

If these strikes involve people from the DWP/Inland Revenue, Brown should tell them not to bother coming back, simplify the system, &amp; give the money back as tax cuts to low &amp; medium earners, &amp; public sector employees such as teachers who do something vaguely worthwhile.

It is a bugbear of mine because I&#039;m under 25... though I like to think when I&#039;m old, I&#039;ll have the same concern, &amp; won&#039;t degenerate into one of the things were better in my day brigade.

There is no justification for the tax credits system as it is: the few good ideas contained in the whole package can be better enacted in other ways.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;2609&#039;,&#039;asquith&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt;   -  &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;2609&#039;,&#039;asquith&#039;,&#039;There is also quite widespread age discrimination: I\&#039;ve explained why I regard the \&quot;working tax credits\&quot; as utter bilge. Now I\&#039;ve found out that someone, working full-time for the minimum wage, gets in excess of &#194;&#163;40 if he is over 25, nothing whatsoever if he is younger.\n\nRegardless of family situation, tenure or anything else. Who the hell dreams this up?\n\nThey charge &#194;&#163;40 a week in tax &amp; give &#194;&#163; 43 in tax credits. Better not to bother taking the tax at all, thus saving admin costs.\n\nIf these strikes involve people from the DWP\/Inland Revenue, Brown should tell them not to bother coming back, simplify the system, &amp; give the money back as tax cuts to low &amp; medium earners, &amp; public sector employees such as teachers who do something vaguely worthwhile.\n\nIt is a bugbear of mine because I\&#039;m under 25... though I like to think when I\&#039;m old, I\&#039;ll have the same concern, &amp; won\&#039;t degenerate into one of the things were better in my day brigade.\n\nThere is no justification for the tax credits system as it is: the few good ideas contained in the whole package can be better enacted in other ways.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is also quite widespread age discrimination: I&#8217;ve explained why I regard the &#8220;working tax credits&#8221; as utter bilge. Now I&#8217;ve found out that someone, working full-time for the minimum wage, gets in excess of £40 if he is over 25, nothing whatsoever if he is younger.</p>
<p>Regardless of family situation, tenure or anything else. Who the hell dreams this up?</p>
<p>They charge £40 a week in tax &amp; give £ 43 in tax credits. Better not to bother taking the tax at all, thus saving admin costs.</p>
<p>If these strikes involve people from the DWP/Inland Revenue, Brown should tell them not to bother coming back, simplify the system, &amp; give the money back as tax cuts to low &amp; medium earners, &amp; public sector employees such as teachers who do something vaguely worthwhile.</p>
<p>It is a bugbear of mine because I&#8217;m under 25&#8230; though I like to think when I&#8217;m old, I&#8217;ll have the same concern, &amp; won&#8217;t degenerate into one of the things were better in my day brigade.</p>
<p>There is no justification for the tax credits system as it is: the few good ideas contained in the whole package can be better enacted in other ways.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2609','asquith'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a>   &#8211;  <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2609','asquith','There is also quite widespread age discrimination: I\'ve explained why I regard the \&quot;working tax credits\&quot; as utter bilge. Now I\'ve found out that someone, working full-time for the minimum wage, gets in excess of &Acirc;&pound;40 if he is over 25, nothing whatsoever if he is younger.\n\nRegardless of family situation, tenure or anything else. Who the hell dreams this up?\n\nThey charge &Acirc;&pound;40 a week in tax &amp;amp; give &Acirc;&pound; 43 in tax credits. Better not to bother taking the tax at all, thus saving admin costs.\n\nIf these strikes involve people from the DWP\/Inland Revenue, Brown should tell them not to bother coming back, simplify the system, &amp;amp; give the money back as tax cuts to low &amp;amp; medium earners, &amp;amp; public sector employees such as teachers who do something vaguely worthwhile.\n\nIt is a bugbear of mine because I\'m under 25... though I like to think when I\'m old, I\'ll have the same concern, &amp;amp; won\'t degenerate into one of the things were better in my day brigade.\n\nThere is no justification for the tax credits system as it is: the few good ideas contained in the whole package can be better enacted in other ways.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: D.G. Macleod</title>
		<link>http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2008/06/26/harman-sticks-her-nose-into-other-peoples-business/#comment-2608</link>
		<dc:creator>D.G. Macleod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/?p=754#comment-2608</guid>
		<description>Is this yet another example of Government statistical lies being used to drive forward policy and lazy journalism failing to challenge the figures?
At the moment its being reported as a fact that for every pound earned by a man eighty seven pence is earned by a woman and this is evidence whitediscrimination.    Now if this is a matter of averages  then its absurd because of the large number of women in part time work.  They are not comparing like with like.  Why do no journalists ask how these figures trotted out by Ministers are arrived at?
As for making young white males the only group in society that can be legally discriminated against I can&#039;t think of a better recruiting  agent for the BNP .    A bill that threatens to be a huge disaster for business,  race relations,  and,  indeed,  relations across the generations.  Its also very bad news for the Labour Party as white working class males are part of their traditional support.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;2608&#039;,&#039;D.G. Macleod&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt;   -  &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;2608&#039;,&#039;D.G. Macleod&#039;,&#039;Is this yet another example of Government statistical lies being used to drive forward policy and lazy journalism failing to challenge the figures?\nAt the moment its being reported as a fact that for every pound earned by a man eighty seven pence is earned by a woman and this is evidence whitediscrimination.    Now if this is a matter of averages  then its absurd because of the large number of women in part time work.  They are not comparing like with like.  Why do no journalists ask how these figures trotted out by Ministers are arrived at?\nAs for making young white males the only group in society that can be legally discriminated against I can\&#039;t think of a better recruiting  agent for the BNP .    A bill that threatens to be a huge disaster for business,  race relations,  and,  indeed,  relations across the generations.  Its also very bad news for the Labour Party as white working class males are part of their traditional support.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this yet another example of Government statistical lies being used to drive forward policy and lazy journalism failing to challenge the figures?<br />
At the moment its being reported as a fact that for every pound earned by a man eighty seven pence is earned by a woman and this is evidence whitediscrimination.    Now if this is a matter of averages  then its absurd because of the large number of women in part time work.  They are not comparing like with like.  Why do no journalists ask how these figures trotted out by Ministers are arrived at?<br />
As for making young white males the only group in society that can be legally discriminated against I can&#8217;t think of a better recruiting  agent for the BNP .    A bill that threatens to be a huge disaster for business,  race relations,  and,  indeed,  relations across the generations.  Its also very bad news for the Labour Party as white working class males are part of their traditional support.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('2608','D.G. Macleod'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a>   &#8211;  <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('2608','D.G. Macleod','Is this yet another example of Government statistical lies being used to drive forward policy and lazy journalism failing to challenge the figures?\nAt the moment its being reported as a fact that for every pound earned by a man eighty seven pence is earned by a woman and this is evidence whitediscrimination.    Now if this is a matter of averages  then its absurd because of the large number of women in part time work.  They are not comparing like with like.  Why do no journalists ask how these figures trotted out by Ministers are arrived at?\nAs for making young white males the only group in society that can be legally discriminated against I can\'t think of a better recruiting  agent for the BNP .    A bill that threatens to be a huge disaster for business,  race relations,  and,  indeed,  relations across the generations.  Its also very bad news for the Labour Party as white working class males are part of their traditional support.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div>
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