Israel is playing the victim again
Dear Stephen Ladyman,
There is a cruel irony to your article on Comment Is Free this morning. When it comes to the Middle East, I don’t think there is any country or party that can claim the moral high ground. Nevertheless, there is nothing more irritating to me than strong partisan views on this subject.
Living in southern Israel must be a horrible experience and your recent visit explains why. However, your attitude towards the conflict as a whole horrifies me. Your accusation that the media in the UK has a pro-Palestinian bias is at best debatable, and you made absolutely no reference to the appalling pro-Israeli bias held by our government. You believe that what Hamas is doing “cannot be excused, and it cannot be dignified as freedom fighting”, which I also take issue with. When another country not only occupies your land but does everything it can to shut you out of it (border controls, building new settlements etc) in addition to being denied a voice at the political table, it is difficult for me to feel anger towards them. I would never condone suicide bombings but these people have little option as they are starved of input in the peace process. I agree that Hamas firing rockets into Israel is “inhuman, brutal and repressive”, but it begs the question of how you would describe Israel killing 17 Palestinians yesterday including several children?
As I said in the ‘Why I write these letters’ page on this blog, I believe that peace can only ever be achieved by talking to people, not blowing them up. Peace will never be achieved in the Middle East if either the Israelis or Palestinians are ignored and you would do well to remember that.
Yours sincerely,
A.Tory
Dear A. Tory,
I do agree with you that it might be a failure to exclude Gaza’s Hamas completely from the negotiation table. Yet unfortunately I see little potential for them to be part of an sustainable solution as long as they don’t do as little as taking into consideration Israel’s right of existence.
But as for Israel just having taken the risk of withdrawal from Gaza and now having fired Qassam at Sderot I can see why they might be reluctant of any further concessions.
An enduring peace resolutions will need to be one both populations feel okay with, you are right, or the situation will explode into violence again and again and again …
- Migdalit
Even though I wasn’t very old at the time, I remember the furore over the decision to bring the IRA into the peace process and the outcries from various camps at the prospect of talking to terrorists. Do you think the IRA wanted Northern Ireland to exist outside of Irish control? Of course not, but when they saw that their only option was to become part of the peace process they fell in line and after years of unbelievably difficult negotiations, peace was achieved for the first time in living memory.
I don’t care if the Americans or Israelis or the EU don’t want to talk to Hamas – they have no choice but to engage with them (assuming that they want peace).
I agree with your use of the Ireland example in explaining this conflict as there are many similarities that can be drawn between the two situations. The main being religion and sadly this blight on the world isn’t going to go away very soon.
The Israelis and Palestinians would probably live together fairly peacefully if both countries adhered to the same religion or better still none at all.
This line of reasoning is pointless as it is an ideal that can never be reality but once extremists are subdued there is a chance of having effective talks and progress in the direction of peace.
Although whether either side actually wants peace is a very different matter. And I’m afraid my sympathies will always lie on the side of Israel – they’re surrounded by muslim countries and that is not a very enviable position in the current climate.
I agree that it is a matter of ’subduing’ the extremists to bring them into the peace process as they simply won’t change overnight. NI showed that there will always be people who try to derail the process but that is why parties and governments have to remain strong instead of cowering away and turning to violence themselves.
“The Israelis and Palestinians would probably live together fairly peacefully if both countries adhered to the same religion or better still none at all.”
I think the sticking point here, as A. Tory pointed out, isn’t so much the religion thing as the occupying someone else’s land thing. You don’t need to be religious to be enraged when someone gives your country to someone else. You can’t honestly say that if the two sets of people were the same religion, or had no religion at all, there wouldn’t be a problem, can you?
Spot on. I know that Hamas and Fatah are loathed to recognise the state of Israel, but if someone built on my homeland I suspect that I’d be pretty outraged too.
Hello from America.
Generally, do UK Tories find Labour ’s highly sympathetic stance towards Israel objectionable?
Are you kidding me?!?! Both Labour and the Conservatives have ‘Friends of Israel’ groups which boast some prominent members, but believe me when I say there isn’t a ‘Friends of Palestine’ group in sight in the two main parties.
Well done to the Liberal Democrats for having one – http://www.ldfp.eu/.
Just a small point but where was the fighting when the jews moved in. That was the time to take a stance not now.
Countries borders and boundaries have changed over and over again for centuries/millenia they are merely political and whimsical and they will always shift, form and reform. So yes it is a question of land but religion also plays a part in how aggressive the combatants will behave towards each other. No respect for the other’s religion means no respect for them and therefore a life is easier to take (as they aren’t the blessed ones etc.) so of course religion is part and parcel of the mentality of each group.
Palestinian militants need to stop attacking Israel, full stop. They need to stop hiding and launching rocket attacks from civilian areas. Palestinian society, as a whole, needs to recognise the right of Israel to exist, to recognise that the Jews will not just leave the area. Israel has offered the Palestinians an independent state numerous times. It has been rejected outright every time. Why? Because they want the whole of the land to be ‘Palestine’. If you watch Palestinian TV you will see the the anti-Semitism has reached Nazi blood libel proportions, also in the surrounding Arab countries.
If Palestinian and Arab society in general can renounce this disgusting anti-Semitism, recognise Israel, and focus on a sovereign Palestinian state that is at peace with Israel, not at war, and strives to achieve self-reliance economically and socially, then and only then, will there be peace in the middle east.
Israel’s tough military responses, and Hamas and other militants cowardice and blatant disregard for civilian life do result in tragic and unnecessary Palestinian civilian deaths.
When King Abdullah of Jordan got pissed with the Palestinians, he annihilated 20,000 of them. Palestinian militants were turning up in Israel with the hands up, as they knew they would not be slaughtered but would get mercy.
Yet Palestinian, Arab, Muslim opinion focuses their entire wrath on Israel. Why have the surrounding Arab states consistently refused to give a homeland to the Palestinians?
The West Bank was part of Jordan! Gaza was claimed and occupied by Egypt!
Candid,
“Just a small point but where was the fighting when the jews moved in. That was the time to take a stance not now.”
I know you did not just say that?…..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine
…….
but the rest of your comment is pretty much true.
This has been going on sooo long, most people today have no clue of what happened then or what the real facts are now even, which is why I don’t support either side really, and choose to stand in the middle, which is where more people should be!!! That might help !
I blame lots of things for whats happening, but that doesn’t solve anything does it?
Palestinians, don’t get the support from inside the middle east some would lead you to believe they do ….. they are often referred to as a “rat infestation.
I agree that this is not a black-or-white issue, which is why I hate people taking a partisan viewpoint on what is one of the most complex geographical and political histories of the last 50 years.
I don’t expect surrounding countries to just accept Palestinians because they shouldn’t have to. A sovereign and peaceful Palestinian state is the objective and all groups and parties should be working towards this. I am appalled by anyone who gets in the way of the peace process and that includes Israel.
I have never visited a more infantile, ill-informed debate in all my years of visiting.
My advice to lfat is delete the bloody lot, and hide the shame!!
What do you say then, you condescending prick?