I support Geert Wilders 100% with his film against Islam
Dear Geert Wilders,
No doubt you have noticed the panic in the eyes of many Dutch and European politicians at the release of your film on Islam. Many authorities are bracing themselves for protests now that your film is available. The question in many people’s minds is should the film have been released – and the answer is simple: yes, absolutely.
I remember the tragic silence that followed the death of Theo Van Gogh, the Dutch filmmaker killed by a Muslim gunman over the film he made. Most politicians were too afraid to even be seen in front of the cameras, as they feared that should they speak out in the defence of Mr Van Gogh, they would become the next target. Even the outrage from politicians in the UK was notable by its absence. Nobody stood up for freedom of speech, even though to my mind it is one of the most fundamental parts of English and European culture. People cowered in fear rather than rising up against the disgusting attack on Western values. Now, you are standing up for freedom of speech and you have my total support. The only time when I think free speech should be questioned is when violence is incited against an individual or group, but your film does no such thing. Of course it presents a wholly partisan perspective, but what’s wrong with that? I assume that you have done your research on the issues that you touched on and have gained some fascinating footage, which makes your film more of a documentary – albeit a controversial one – than anything else.
Thank you for standing up for your beliefs and refusing to be silenced by the cowards who fail to confront the continued assault on freedom of speech from a number of religious groups over the past few years.
Yours sincerely,
A.Tory
HERE IS THE SHORT FILM THAT GEERT WILDERS HAS MADE ON ISLAM, WHICH IS CALLED ‘FITNA’:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgQdZgojOFI&feature=related]
Witanagemot Blogs
Couldn’t agree more. The cowardice of those people who’d rather be politically correct than defend liberal values is sickening.
…and yet our politicians are too chicken to stand up for the values of this country.
It makes the irony of Gordon Brown talking about ‘Britishness’ all the time even more outrageous.
Not hard hitting enough but its good to see someone brave enough to make a stand.
Interesting you should mention that. Bearing in mind the fear that has been gripping Dutch and EU authorities over this short and fairly inexpensive film, can you imagine what it would be like if someone did a feature-length version?
So that’s a few tories as well as a Dutch politician who don’t have anything useful to contribute.
We can separate freedom of expression from making valid judgements. While of course it is obvious Geert Wilders should have the right to post this video, I am perturbed that none of the above have pointed out its utterly ridiculous content. It demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the Qu’ran.
Charming.
I don’t pretend to be an expert on the subject, but I’m not entirely sure how his quotes, pictures and videos demonstrate “a total lack of understanding of the Qu’ran”. If anyone has a lack of understanding of the Qu’ran, isn’t it the people in the video?….
(and I don’t think asquith will be too happy being labelled a Tory!!!)
I am shocked that the intention behind this piece of propoganda needs to be spelt out.
The famous image of the prophet Mohammad with a bomb? Citing Al-Anfal as a justification for killing infidels? Citing An-Nisa as a justification for anti-semitism? Selective material of a young girl calling Jews “apes and pigs”; more selective material of banners of “God Belss Hitler”.
Oh come on. This is trying to paint Islam as ‘the’ problem when in fact the vast majority of Muslims have a more reasonable interpretation of the Qu’ran leading them to a peaceful life.
You didn’t need to spell out his obvious intention – I was asking you to explain how his content was so ridiculous.
Of course his use of material was selective, but I don’t remember recently seeing any Christians or Hindus marching around with banners calling for murder or even a holocaust. The vast majority of Muslims are clearly peaceful, but I can only assume that you would therefore admit that a small group of Muslims are as violent and ruthless as Mr Wilders portrays them.
But if the intention was obvious to you, then why did you/do you fail to see how ridiculous the content is. The content is ridiculous because of his intentions.
You are not aware of Hindu militancy in India??? Check out the behaviour of some members of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh. And the KKK and various extreme militia movements in the US cite passages from the Bible as their justification for their horrific acts.
Like I said, a reasonable and informed judgement of the actual content of the Qu’ran highlights the absurdity of the ’spin’ that Islamic extremists and Wilders puts on its teachings.
The content is not ridiculous. His intention was clear from the outset, but this does not weaken the validity of his material. I am still waiting for someone to prove that his quotes from the Qu’ran are indeed nothing more than “spin”, because they look pretty incriminating. I also need convincing that the views documented in the video are not held by hundreds, if not thousands of other people.
And, perhaps more importantly, if Wilders (or anyone else) is twisting or distorting the truth about the Qu’ran, why aren’t politicians and religious leaders openly fighting his arguments with evidence instead of cowering away from them and shutting down his website?
Peter it is you who is ridiculous.Religious extremism (speficially Islamist) has resulted in thousands of deaths in the Western world. You don’t find this ‘ridiculous’ or odd in the enlightened 21st century?
So Wilders has portrayed the dangers of radical islamism, and it’s ridiculous because he didn’t point out that some of the Quran is peaceful, that most Muslims are peaceful?! It’s ridiculous because he didn’t point there are other groups that a violent apart from Muslims?!
Get a grip Peter.
“a reasonable and informed judgement of the actual content of the Qu’ran highlights the absurdity of the ’spin’ that Islamic extremists and Wilders puts on its teachings.”
That is entirely subjective. There are over 100 ‘jihadi’ verses in the Quran. On ‘balance’, how do you square that with Islam = peace epithet? Why on earth is it a religion of peace? Mohammed was a first class warrior. Islam conquered, and very effectively too. Sure there’s peaceful verses. In a way the Quran is a bit like a mirror, a peaceful Imam will read peace, an angry one anger. But surely the proof is in the pudding.
The Abrahamic religions all have problems. However the facts is there are around 2,000 self-declared Muslims in this country being monitored by the security services. Personally I find it ridiculous that in the 21st century, one of the biggest threats is terrorism – from religious extremists!
And by the Western provocavteurs of Islam should continue unabated, I am very pleased that the recent reaction to this anti-islam film has been thus far very muted. If people keep making provocative statements about Islam, than the unacceptable violent response will diminish.
If were down to you Peter, the Mo Cartoons would have never happened, the boundaries would have not been pushed. You have very little insight in to a modern democracy is formed and little understanding of supporting free speech.
Letters from a Tory:
The excerpts mentioned from the Qu’ran are taken in isolation. If you actually READ the aforementioned passages you will find they are highly qualified. Lawyers would point out that meaning is lost without understanding the totality of the arguments. And yes, they are highly selective outtakes intended for maximum impact.
Marvin:
Do I find deaths as a result of religious extremism ridiculous? Duh, of course, just like I find deaths in the name of any other ‘ism’ ridiculous. And the point you so obviously miss is that Wilders does not merely demonstrate “the dangers of radical islam” but is in fact arguing that Islam itself is the problem and he does so by using the Qu’ran selectively (see previous point). Your following points about the content of the Qu’ran suggest you haven’t actually read it (have you?). Theologicians en masse would totally disagree with your interpretation. And Mohammad was a “warrior”? St. Paul the Apostle was a nasty piece of work as well. Very violent. Your very final comment “if it were down to me…” just shows you completely ignored my opening point which reads: “While of course it is obvious Geert Wilders should have the right to post this video, I am perturbed that none of the above have pointed out its utterly ridiculous content.” So I was talking about *the content* not *the right* to publish it.
Well said! I watched it last night and could not see what all the fuss was about. As a previous commenter said, it was pretty tame. I support Wilders 100% on this.
Peter,
I disagree with most of what you state. Verses are indeed taken out of context but not in the way you assume. I’ve read the Koran and would be extremely happy to discuss this with you. Take a supposed verse that you feel is out of context and we can see what the historical significance of it is and how it relates to today. I’m afraid Islam is the problem and there is no getting past that by pretending it’s not.
Peter, what is the punishment, agreed by all 5 major schools of islamic jurispendence, for a sane make apostate under islamic state? When mohammed said ‘kill he who changes his religion’ out of context? And why is the entire islamic world wrong and you are right?
Beaman -
Sure! It will be my pleasure. Let us start with any of the verses that condone Jihad (as this is the central point). Please, refer to one you think explicitly and unconditionally instructs Muslims to commit Jihad. The 75 verses of Al-Anfal are usually peoples favourite starting point…
Marvin -
One of hundreds of quotes I have from Islamic scholars arguing against the fallacy you just wrote about:
“Well, if there is a God, I would argue, it can be expected a priori that he wants a voluntary response born of genuine gratitude and humility themselves rooted in reflection and morally responsible choice. Seen in this light, heresy and even apostasy are morally more acceptable than any hypocritical attachment to orthodox opinion out of the fear of public sanctions. Fortunately, for us, we have the evidence of the Koran itself in favour of this view: ‘there should be no compulsion in religion’ (2:256). Unfortunately, however, many learned authorities have sought to cancel this noble sentiment by finding verses within the sacred volume that favour the opposite opinion.”
Shabbir Akhtar, A Faith for All Seasons, 1990, p. 21
The author goes on to note the problem of selectively using verses in the Qu’ran to support Jihad when a full reading always qualifies when violence can be used. I refer you to verse 61 of Al-Anfal, “And if they [infidels] incline towards peace, then incline you also….”
Peter are you Sufi?
I respect peaceful Muslim interpretations of the Quran, if it that’s what they personally choose to believe in.
Peter, as I was saying earlier, the Quran is much like a mirror. It’s a large text with many facets. People will read into it what they will.
Jihad at the West can be justified using the texts, at the same time peace could be justified from the texts. Do you agree?
Peter, it’s great if you can argue theologically against Jihad. It really is. But we’re not the ones you need to convince! It’s those that believe Jihad is a theological compulsion from Islam.
Thing is Peter, you will accept it’s all about perception don’t you?
Like Islam forbids the killing of innocents, right? OK. Well it depends on your definition of innocent, right?? Anjem Choudry says non-Muslims are not innocent.
Marvin -
“Why is the entire islamic world wrong and you are right?”
That sums up the problem of your position entirely. There is no ONE opinion of the Islamic world. The entire islamic world does not believe non-believers should be killed. And I do not believe my interpretation of the Qu’ran is the “right” one as you suggest. I am merely demonstrating that the only reason we are all having this debate is because SOME Muslims take a very narrow interpretation of the Qu’ran to justify Jihad, and that in response SOME non-muslims (in this instance Wilders and current posters on this blog) accept that the problem is the religion and not the interpretation. Hopefully by debating with Beaman I can raise awareness that this is not the case.
It doesn’t help that Islam actually has verses that incite others to murder.
“008.012 Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): “I am with you:
give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers:
smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.”
This may well have occured after the Battle of Badr and should be taken “in context”. I understand that perfectly.
You need to educate the jihadis, not those who criticise Islam. Actions speak louder than words.
But yes, it’s all down to the interpretation.
“The entire islamic world does not believe non-believers should be killed.”
Thats correct. But the majority public opinion in all ISLAMIC states says this is the case. Iran, Saudia Arabia, Afghanistan etc etc
Actions speak louder than words….
Yes but hold on a second – the preaching of killing others for their ’sins’ is not unique to the Qu’ran – there is plenty of passages in the Bible that can be used to condone such acts. For example, ignoring a priest:
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Homosexuality:
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
and plenty of others.
Islamic states do not speak for Islamic people! I can assure you that the people within such states do not conform strictly to the state’s official position. Alas, this is an empirical question that neither of us have data for, but in my experience of many Muslims in many countries, the state’s position very rarely coincides with the individuals.
And no. I don’t need to educate Jihadists. I feel the need to educate Westerners who, like Wilders, selectively refer to the Qu’ran as extremists do.
The reason I target Westerners is because I am British, white and middle-class.
Oh, and agnostic
)
One last quote from the bible I just remembered which incites the killing of followers of other religions:
“If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.” (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
Lovely.
Well, so what? So Christianity is as bad as Islamism. If I lived in the USA, I’d be campaigning day and night against the Mike Huckabees and Pat Robertsons. But here in England my stance is against the Iqbal Sacranies and Rowan Williamses.
As a Lib Dem, I’m dismayed that my party hasn’t taken up the theme of secularism, because the issue is “ours”. Nick Clegg acted in an especially craven way by having his children brought up as Catholics. Does he really not understand that our liberal tradition was born in the struggle against Rome? Are we really not prepared to demand a secular liberal democracy, to protect those vulnerable people who would be first victims of the theocrats?
I wonder what is happening here. We should be moving into a new century which isn’t suffocated by superstition. It angers me.
Asquith, I totally agree with your position.
But in the context of the preceding discussion, it was illustrative of me to point out the passages of the bible as Geert Wilders thesis is that Islam, and only Islam, is the cause of terrorism. This is wrong.
In Clegg’s defence, his wife is a practising Catholic and Clegg himself is agnostic.
I support Geert Wilder 100%
Wake up Europe.
Thaks Geert.
A true Christian University
Liberty
Is this any different than a madrassa? If it is – is this the start of what is seen as moral?
We all should be working toward living in peace with each other, while I refuse to condemn the video, I don’t think it helped matters – but neither does calling for my head because I am a Christian.
I’m afraid I haven’t watched the film, Peter. If Geert Wilders thinks this then he is completely wrong.
But as is usual with these cases, if he is wrong he should be allowed to speak his mind and people will point out how wrong he is, which will result in a debate, and everyone can form his own opinions.
Therefore, my initial statement that the would-be censors are wrong still stands!
Asquith you muppet, I put a copy of the film on my blog so everyone could watch it!
So you did. I managed not to notice that at all
It’s just a red x at the moment, so I’ll check later and see if it works then.
YouTube has still got it (search for ‘Fitna’) but as I’ve just posted, official sites are being threatened out of business one by one.
I hope all the idiots who claim that Islam is not a dangerous religion are happy now.
It’s a religion of peace. Clearly. Four words. Proof. In. The. Pudding.
Most people in Europe are none muslim…
Yet, I don’t see any extreme christians, extreme hindoes, extreme buddhists etc. terrorizing followers of any other believe on any channel in Europe ” and I get pay per view”.
Allthough there are propably negative passages towards other religions in all religious books!
Personally why leave any doubt. And not modify any and all passages that might be mis-interpreted by people with to much time on their hands. If that we are all so pro peace.
And, here is on to think about, has Wilders out smarted most of us. This is not I guy with no education, although some of us would like to believe so.
Who actually knows what Wilders is thinking anyway. I know I would not be watching a documentary about how kewl and great it is that some may people from different religions are so getting a long so nicely these days.
The discussion would certainly not have taken of like it did, if Fitna had milder contents. If an open discussion about the mis-interpretation of some of the verses is what Wilders planned he is a ……….
Greets, from Holland.
(Where free speech still rules, allthough are prime minister sucks.)
I feel the entire issue is stupid. Geert is a brilliant, the violent reaction of the muslims around the world only goes to prove his point of the intollerance of the religion of peace. If these people were so peaceful they would simply ignore the things that they didn’t agree with. They would simply not watch the video. And the points made by the one person about the violent comments in the Bible, i dont believe that a Christian Preacher has called for a crusade in hundreds of years. Islam by contrast has a crusade called just about every other day. If Islam is a religion of peace they why does almost every muslim country have problems with violence with their neighbors. Its because they are as intollerant as the Nazi’s. Simply put the video should stay up. Shame on the politicians who are afraid of the violence they may incur against themselves. What happened to the world where people could speak their minds openly, damn political correctness to hell. It is the most outragious of circumstances to hear western democracies cowering and hiding behind the vail of political correctness. Damn it to hell, people should say what they like.
If Islam was all about forced conversions and killing all non-muslims,– one would have a hard time explaining the multitude of religious minorities that have lived in “muslim lands” for the last 1400 years . Jerusalem is a good example. The Church of the Nativity (and thousands of other Christian sites) has always stood intact after muslim dominance in the region – Christian pilgrims have come and gone from the region all these centuries. Muslims have lived in the US for a long time, though their numbers were small until recently – there was no violence associated with muslims here until 9/11 when 19 out of about 6 million carried out the attack. The facts need to be kept in mind in order to maintain perspective.
So, my feeling about Geert Wilders film is that he proves nothing by it. It is a spasm of hate and rage, blindly directed at 1/5th o f the world population. He has produced no new facts or information for the world to consider. It is clear he has either mistranslated, or twisted, some verses from the Quran in order to try to persuade others that Islam is the problem rather than particular imams. Only the ignorant and the cowards will jump on the “kill the middle eastern infidels” bandwagon. Wilder’s main goal is to provoke antipathy toward the muslims in Europe to spark another holocost. Europe has a long, long history of bloody ethnic cleansing – this is just a new round.
I don’t feel sorry for the Europeans at all. They should have thought ahead when they imported all that cheap labor from north africa, the middle east, and pakistan and asked themselves what they were going to do with the 8.5 children per couple that these families tend to have. Now they have millions of dark people living in their racist culture and they need a justification to be nasty to them. But then again, the Jews weren’t dark skinned – they used economic justifications to purge them. And the Bosnians weren’t dark, they used “historic wrongs” to justify those killings. Europe disgusts me.
[...] about Islam, called ‘Fitna’, caused quite a stir and got a lot of comments. If you read the comments section for this post, you will notice that many people defended Islam on the grounds that the vast [...]
While i cannont deny that there are many good muslims in the world, i cannot find one good muslim government. Turkey with its refusal to admit the Armenian genocide, Iran with their crazy leader threatoning war on Israel, the Sudan with its deplorable human rights record. The reason the west has been so excepting of the muslims from North Africa and other areas is that the Europeans today have secular governments. They do not have religion as the main principle and pillar of government. The mini-caliphates of these Muslim nations use the universal religion of the people and turn it into a perverted version of the religion. Many such as the retard in Iran will never see the light. They preach blind hatred and raged with talking about the west or Jerusalem in particular. These leaders use their religious roles to basically enslave their peoples determining everything from whether they are allowed to view the internet to what they can wear and who they can marry. Many of the Islamic nations of the world live in countries that are being run essentially the same way as they were hundreds of years ago. Thats the problem, Europeans and Christians in general have mooved on from the crusading movement, no longer do they look to violence. The imams of Islam still preach the spreading of the word by the sword. Why else would they be so sensative about every little word that is said about them. Riots over cartoons and movies, come on lets move into the modern era. You didn’t see Jews and Christians riot over the controversial move the Passion of the Christ. They may have complained but they took it in stride. When will a modern Muslim leader stand up and say, ignore the things that are offensive to you. Its time for the muslim world to grow up and stop acting like children who cant control their emotions with another child teases or says something about them in class. Please for the world, wont one influential imam or Islamic world leader stand up and preach and end to the madness.
THOSE WHO SAY THE CONTENT OF FITNA IS RIDICULOUS, THAT TE INFORMATION IS FALSE, ARE WRONG! THE CORAN COMMANDS MUSLIMS TO KILL ALL NON-BELIEVERS, IN NAME OF ALLAH. all of the pieces of text in fitna, are really from the koran. That is exactly where geert wants to warn all the non-muslims for. Its a fact te muslim population keeps on expanding. He has no problem with the largest part of the koran (if the muslims want to live a lifetime of fear for their god, they can do it, it’s their choise)
, but those horrible pages that command the death of infidels and also allowing horrible violence for things that are long accepted in the western world, they are what makes the islam a threath. there will come a point te population of muslims in europe is almost as large as the non-muslims. THAT IS WHAT HE’S WARNING US FOR. we should respect him for having the balls for risking his life for the wellness of the future of his people. all other politicians are afraid to do it, and who wouldn’t be?!
The entire situation could be solved if, as Hudson says above, an islamic world leader makes some changes. but … too bad, this way is also an impossible one, because “There is only 1 prophet and that is Muhammed” so no muslim is allowed to modify the islam religion.
in my humble opinion. Muhammed was a highly intelligent megalomaniac. now please don’t cut my head of because of my opinion.
Today is a sad day because Geert Wilders is to be charged with
making anti-Islamic statements.
Geert Wilders is going on trial for freedom of speech.
It is insane that he is on trial at all!
[...] (which can be viewed HERE) caused quite a stir in political and religious circleson its release. I wrote to you at the time expressing my support for freedom of speech and your right to express wha…. Sadly, the Dutch government has finally caved in and you are to be charged for making [...]
ISLAM translates to: Submission. Not peace at all.
How is it possible a minority religion affects EU laws on freedom of speech? Geert will be in court for discrimination and incitement to agression. How crazy can it get? He could have expressed himself more clearly, with better articulated facts.
And peacefull majority Muslims were silent after the killing of Van Gogh. That silence prooves their true conviction.
Allah is great and Mohammed is dead.
GEERT WILDERS?
We fought two World Wars and sacrificed millions of lives to preserve FREEDOM of speech. We have very right to hear what this Dutch politician has to say! To silence Wilders, what gross arrogance of Brown to to inflict the “THOUGHT POLICE” of James Joyce’s 1984 novel.
God bless the web where we CAN hear and decide for ourselves what the man has to say! And of course Brown’s utter stupidity plays very much into the hands of the BNP!!!?
Freedom of speech is special, however you wish freedom of speech for only some of society. It is questionable. I entirely agree with you. It was Nazism and the communism and now islamisation that sre the scurge of europe.
Wake up America! We are next. Thank you Geert Wilders for your courage and conviction.