Comments on: Nothing like a bit of ‘Labour-speak’ http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2007/09/05/nothing-like-a-bit-of-labour-speak/ Daily views on British politics and the Conservative Party from a centre-right thinker who writes letters on his blog to politicians, journalists and many others. Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:46:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Somebody please buy Miliband a map « LETTERS FROM A TORY http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2007/09/05/nothing-like-a-bit-of-labour-speak/#comment-1182 Somebody please buy Miliband a map « LETTERS FROM A TORY Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:03:03 +0000 http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/2007/09/05/nothing-like-a-bit-of-labour-speak/#comment-1182 [...] seem to remember writing you a letter not so long ago about the fact that Turkey is not in Europe and has little in common with European values, history and attitudes.  Obviously you haven’t checked a map since then, because the very notion that Africa and [...]<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('1182','Somebody please buy Miliband a map « LETTERS FROM A TORY'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('1182','Somebody please buy Miliband a map « LETTERS FROM A TORY','[...] seem to remember writing you a letter not so long ago about the fact that Turkey is not in Europe and has little in common with European values, history and attitudes.  Obviously you haven’t checked a map since then, because the very notion that Africa and [...]'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> [...] seem to remember writing you a letter not so long ago about the fact that Turkey is not in Europe and has little in common with European values, history and attitudes.  Obviously you haven’t checked a map since then, because the very notion that Africa and [...]
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]]> By: tomas kust http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2007/09/05/nothing-like-a-bit-of-labour-speak/#comment-1181 tomas kust Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:29:10 +0000 http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/2007/09/05/nothing-like-a-bit-of-labour-speak/#comment-1181 Dear Letters,
You state clearly “I know what Europe is, thanks. It’s very clearly defined on the map,” yet you fail to recognise the inherent contradiction in what you say.
Maps show places, so they might show you where something is, but not what it is. However, definitions are always determined by politics which are the result of history, so one might bother to remember that boundaries have shifted as those definitions you hold dear have changed. Anyway, even a cursory glance at an atlas will show you that the part of Turkey called Eastern Thrace is within the landmass which you affirm as ‘Europe’. For arguments’ sake and to aid your information, I personally favour the Taurus mountain range as the border of ‘Europe’ (ie Kurdistan is not european), but that raises the discomfort of creating problems about the definitiveness of those strict definitions, which you sidestep without confronting them.
According to your critique over human rights you are clearly arguing that ‘Europe’ is a political construct, so, in future I hope you will be more aware of the potential for irrational disingenuity, conscious or otherwise.
Thanks.
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]]> By: Letters From A Tory http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2007/09/05/nothing-like-a-bit-of-labour-speak/#comment-1180 Letters From A Tory Mon, 10 Sep 2007 06:24:43 +0000 http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/2007/09/05/nothing-like-a-bit-of-labour-speak/#comment-1180 I don't need a logical progression to reach 'Turkey commits horrific human rights violations and should therefore not be allowed to enter the European Union until such practices are brought to a stop'. That is clearly a salient argument in itself and saying that I should develop my techniques for political investigation cleverly sidesteps your inability to respond to my point. And I know what Europe is, thanks. It's very clearly defined on the map.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('1180','Letters From A Tory'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('1180','Letters From A Tory','I don\'t need a logical progression to reach \'Turkey commits horrific human rights violations and should therefore not be allowed to enter the European Union until such practices are brought to a stop\'. That is clearly a salient argument in itself and saying that I should develop my techniques for political investigation cleverly sidesteps your inability to respond to my point.\n\nAnd I know what Europe is, thanks. It\'s very clearly defined on the map.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> I don’t need a logical progression to reach ‘Turkey commits horrific human rights violations and should therefore not be allowed to enter the European Union until such practices are brought to a stop’. That is clearly a salient argument in itself and saying that I should develop my techniques for political investigation cleverly sidesteps your inability to respond to my point.

And I know what Europe is, thanks. It’s very clearly defined on the map.

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]]> By: tomas kust http://www.lettersfromatory.com/2007/09/05/nothing-like-a-bit-of-labour-speak/#comment-1179 tomas kust Sun, 09 Sep 2007 21:42:03 +0000 http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/2007/09/05/nothing-like-a-bit-of-labour-speak/#comment-1179 Dear Letters, please allow me spell it out for you - if you can succeed in drawing a line on a map to permanently define an outline, you are a far better man than hundreds of generations of cartographers and despots: perhaps instead you might like to 'think' a bit deeper about what 'Europe' is and why you hold your opinions. Should you be unable to unravel the origins of such recieved conclusions, which, of course, you are more than welcome to agree or disagree with, then perhaps you may learn to understand the irony of continuing to maintain your strapline. While I'm pleased that you to take the time to correspond, I would be more enthused were you to exercise slightly more oversight when you wish to assert your opinions, and although I'd prefer some argument by which a logical progression of ideas could be assertained, I would nevertheless wish you further encouragement in the development of your techniques for political investigation, on the proviso that some development is eventually forthcoming. Yours sincerely.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('1179','tomas kust'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('1179','tomas kust','Dear Letters,\nplease allow me spell it out for you - if you can succeed in drawing a line on a map to permanently define an outline, you are a far better man than hundreds of generations of cartographers and despots: perhaps instead you might like to \'think\' a bit deeper about what \'Europe\' is and why you hold your opinions.\nShould you be unable to unravel the origins of such recieved conclusions, which, of course, you are more than welcome to agree or disagree with, then perhaps you may learn to understand the irony of continuing to maintain your strapline.\nWhile I\'m pleased that you to take the time to correspond, I would be more enthused were you to exercise slightly more oversight when you wish to assert your opinions, and although I\'d prefer some argument by which a logical progression of ideas could be assertained, I would nevertheless wish you further encouragement in the development of your techniques for political investigation, on the proviso that some development is eventually forthcoming.\nYours sincerely.'); return false;">Quote this comment</a></div> Dear Letters,
please allow me spell it out for you – if you can succeed in drawing a line on a map to permanently define an outline, you are a far better man than hundreds of generations of cartographers and despots: perhaps instead you might like to ‘think’ a bit deeper about what ‘Europe’ is and why you hold your opinions.
Should you be unable to unravel the origins of such recieved conclusions, which, of course, you are more than welcome to agree or disagree with, then perhaps you may learn to understand the irony of continuing to maintain your strapline.
While I’m pleased that you to take the time to correspond, I would be more enthused were you to exercise slightly more oversight when you wish to assert your opinions, and although I’d prefer some argument by which a logical progression of ideas could be assertained, I would nevertheless wish you further encouragement in the development of your techniques for political investigation, on the proviso that some development is eventually forthcoming.
Yours sincerely.
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